Timing Off aprox 90Deg? (was ECU/ECM Problems), So it finally died (renamed topic) Options

[Spider77]

A few days ago was driving the celica and out of nowhere it just died. Luckily enough I was able to get it towed to my house for free (well, insurance). Thing is she wont start. I know Im getting fuel, and compression checks ok. I'm not getting spark though, I've got it narrowed down to either the dizzy or the igntitor, some resistance readings tomorrow will clear that up. But in the meantime, I was wondering if anyone had problems with their ignitor before, and if you have, is the just a way to check the actual item, as opposed to ruling everything else out (by checking ECU, Ignition Coil, and connectors/harness)?

This post has been edited by Spider77: Feb 7, 2012 - 12:52 PM

[kurt95gt]

My 91 gt did the same thing i changed out spark plugs wires dizzy cap rotor button. Then finally tried another dizzy( 4diffrent ones from junk yards) be for i finally gave up an traded iy in on a jetta
I talked to the dealer an it ended up being the ignitor he put a new one in an it fired right up

[bsamps4]

I've never had an ignitor die, but I have had a coilpack die. They are pretty easy to replace. I would start there. The ignitor's are pretty solid.

[Spider77]

Primary and seconday coils check good

[Spider77]

Well damn.............Did a better check today. Tested dizzy, all within specs. So that rules the distributor out, all of a sudden Im getting spark from the wires, which was nice to see, but still no start. Checked the good book and assuming that I have no short/open in the harness (fun!) everything is pointing to ECM. My new question is this: Is it possible to still obtain spark if the ECM is d-e-d...dead? Im supposed to get between .5 to 1.0 VDC on the IGT terminal of the ECM, but im getting .006-.010....
To me it dosent make much sense, got spark, fuel, air good to go......is it a possibility that Im not getting "enough" spark?

[lagos]

Well damn.............Did a better check today. Tested dizzy, all within specs. So that rules the distributor out, all of a sudden Im getting spark from the wires, which was nice to see, but still no start. Checked the good book and assuming that I have no short/open in the harness (fun!) everything is pointing to ECM. My new question is this: Is it possible to still obtain spark if the ECM is d-e-d...dead? Im supposed to get between .5 to 1.0 VDC on the IGT terminal of the ECM, but im getting .006-.010....
To me it dosent make much sense, got spark, fuel, air good to go......is it a possibility that Im not getting "enough" spark?

The ECM almost never fries in our cars. If you are really curious, you can open it up and look for any burnt resistors, but I really doubt that you will find them.

You should check to see if your timing belt didn't break. An easy way to do this is to remove the dist cap, and see if the rotor turns as you crank the motor. Its happened to a few people on here before.

[Spider77]

Engine Cranks But Fails To Start
* Ensure proper spark exists from ignition system.
* Ensure ignition timing is correct.
* Ensure fuel system performs properly (fuel pump, fuel filter,
fuel injector, fuel pressure regulator).
* Check Electronic Control Module (ECM) and wiring.
* Check airflow meter or vacuum sensor and wiring.
* Check idle air control valve (if equipped) and wiring.
* Check circuit opening relay and EFI main relay.
* Check engine compression, valve clearance, valve timing and
timing belt (if equipped).
Right outta book...........Verified spark, Timing good, cylinders get fuel (car reeks of gasoline after too much cranking.), ECM fails check, so thats where I am so far.
Too add, I know the belt is good cause I puled back the cover a bit and had my wife try to start the car, belt checks good. Im not saying the ECU is fried, but "having" issues....I get voltage, but real minimal voltage, not even enough to meet the minimum specs...
This is for "Tests W/Out Codes", cause I pull no codes.

This post has been edited by Spider77: Jan 28, 2012 - 12:18 AM

[JasonTX]

maybe you can find a member close by who is willing to swap ecu's to help diagnose this

[lagos]

Engine Cranks But Fails To Start
* Ensure proper spark exists from ignition system.
* Ensure ignition timing is correct.
* Ensure fuel system performs properly (fuel pump, fuel filter,
fuel injector, fuel pressure regulator).
* Check Electronic Control Module (ECM) and wiring.
* Check airflow meter or vacuum sensor and wiring.
* Check idle air control valve (if equipped) and wiring.
* Check circuit opening relay and EFI main relay.
* Check engine compression, valve clearance, valve timing and
timing belt (if equipped).
Right outta book...........Verified spark, Timing good, cylinders get fuel (car reeks of gasoline after too much cranking.), ECM fails check, so thats where I am so far.
Too add, I know the belt is good cause I puled back the cover a bit and had my wife try to start the car, belt checks good. Im not saying the ECU is fried, but "having" issues....I get voltage, but real minimal voltage, not even enough to meet the minimum specs...
This is for "Tests W/Out Codes", cause I pull no codes.

Check the circuit opening relay and all of your fuses. The relay is located right next to your ecu.

[xrav22]

Engine Cranks But Fails To Start
* Ensure proper spark exists from ignition system.
* Ensure ignition timing is correct.
* Ensure fuel system performs properly (fuel pump, fuel filter,
fuel injector, fuel pressure regulator).
* Check Electronic Control Module (ECM) and wiring.
* Check airflow meter or vacuum sensor and wiring.
* Check idle air control valve (if equipped) and wiring.
* Check circuit opening relay and EFI main relay.
* Check engine compression, valve clearance, valve timing and
timing belt (if equipped).
Right outta book...........Verified spark, Timing good, cylinders get fuel (car reeks of gasoline after too much cranking.), ECM fails check, so thats where I am so far.
Too add, I know the belt is good cause I puled back the cover a bit and had my wife try to start the car, belt checks good. Im not saying the ECU is fried, but "having" issues....I get voltage, but real minimal voltage, not even enough to meet the minimum specs...
This is for "Tests W/Out Codes", cause I pull no codes.

Check the circuit opening relay and all of your fuses. The relay is located right next to your ecu.

Just curious how do you know you are getting fuel? That is a classic symptom of an electric motor going out. Sticks a few times , cools , wiorks, finally goes out. Also I had a bad coolant temp sensor(it was corroded inside and cracked but looked fine from outside) and my car had the same type of symptoms.
Good luck

[Spider77]

Im getting fuel cause after constant cranks (and unwanted accelerator pedal pushes) my car reeks of gasoline. Plus I can see it un the cylinders when I pulled plugs to mrasure compression. But its on my list of things to verify.

[Spider77]

Well fuel pump checks (bridgrd fp b+).

[Spider77]

So....fuel air spark....ecu not reading in specs (tried 4 times....same reading)....
So drived fine then craps out....im kinda left with ecu.......

[PolliS_5S-FE]

My ECU fried in my 94gt. gave a code, no signal received to ecu from distributor. Took ecu to an electronics shop, they repaired it for the equivilant of $100 us or something close to it.

EDIT: it drove fine sometimes then it would cut out and only crank

This post has been edited by PolliS_5S-FE: Jan 28, 2012 - 6:09 PM

[Bitter]

Its probably pretty well and flooded by now, you'll need to dry the cylinders out good. pull all plugs, disable fuel/spark, crank the engine will wide throttle, a few shots of starting fluid in each cylinder, crank with wide throttle, let it sit over night, clean/replace the plugs, renable fuel and spark, try starting it with throttle slightly open.

[Spider77]

I did all that while I was checking compression.....but yeah will have to do it again.

[Spider77]

Ok, so is it within the realm of possibility that a timing belt may slip more than 90 deg? I finally got her up in the air and aligned my u notch but can not get the v notch to hit zero. Tried several times, no luck. So all these problems may of just been a slipping belt.....feel kinda stupid right now. But im just wondering how a belt could slip that much? I'll continue to try to line it up and if not, realign everything and replace some seals while im in there.

[Spider77]

Well, shes alive for now.....timing set back to normal. Still wondering how it slipped that much. After all this work I wish they had made a way to visually check that u notch without having to take half the car apart.

[Smaay]

that notch is just for initial building of an engine. all you have to do is turn the crank so the pulley is on the 0 mark. then look at the marks on the cam gears. that will tell you if the timing is on.

[Spider77]

that notch is just for initial building of an engine. all you have to do is turn the crank so the pulley is on the 0 mark. then look at the marks on the cam gears. that will tell you if the timing is on.

Well, thats good to know, either way it had to be tore down....but something i'll keep in mind for future reference


This post has been edited by Spider77: Feb 9, 2012 - 5:42 PM