Head swap Options

[Xander_X]

Though I'm a trained Toyota mechanic, they don't teach you anything that's not in the book. Plus as soon as I got my degree and all their certificates I went to Honda and never looked back ... until I purchased my 6gc. With Honda, there are a number of hybrid engine combinations you can do, some worth it, some not. Is this at all so with the 5S-FE? Are there any heads that are at all common to swap on to a 5S-FE block, or is my only choice swapping the engine to get more performance (besides adding a turbo, which to me is more of a pain than it's worth. If I go turbo, I'm just going to swap an entire -GTE in)

[nics]

3s head 5s bottom = 5sge

[enderswift]

a number of members started swaps like what you're talking about, namely bcentaur and presure2, but there haven't been any updates lately. Unfortunately Toyota engines aren't as modular as those from honda; there's a fair amount of drilling and grinding to open up oil and coolant ports.

[Xander_X]

3s head 5s bottom = 5sge

Hmmm ... thats kinda where I was goin with this. I wonder if this is like Enderswift says below and a lot of drilling. I know putting a Honda Vtec head on a non-vtec block you have to drill out the oil holes, but it's not bad, it's one of the most common "swaps" do to the non-vtec blocks being taller and having a better crank.

a number of members started swaps like what you're talking about, namely bcentaur and presure2, but there haven't been any updates lately. Unfortunately Toyota engines aren't as modular as those from honda; there's a fair amount of drilling and grinding to open up oil and coolant ports.

[Xander_X]

found this ... getting excited ...

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/17-celic...-how-5s-ge.html

[celica74]

Good find. Makes ense there both s series motors. Im wondering if a 94and up 5sfe with take a beams head(3sge). Be like having a stroked beams id assume. If your going to persure this id advise taking your time and going all out, full bottom end build. Id that thread he said hed never taken it above 5500 rpm. Get it to go up to that 9k. Would be interesting to see the power gain. Hopefully its much like the honda frankenstein h series(h23 block with vtec h22 head). Insane inprovment.

[Xander_X]

Good find. Makes ense there both s series motors. Im wondering if a 94and up 5sfe with take a beams head(3sge). Be like having a stroked beams id assume. If your going to persure this id advise taking your time and going all out, full bottom end build. Id that thread he said hed never taken it above 5500 rpm. Get it to go up to that 9k. Would be interesting to see the power gain. Hopefully its much like the honda frankenstein h series(h23 block with vtec h22 head). Insane inprovment.

Problem with the H series engine is finding aftermarket pistons. The factory sleeves have cork in them. When you do find them, they're expensive. I've had 2 Honda hybrids, a B20 block (totally bulletproof 2.0 CR-V block) mated with a B18B head (3rd gen 1.8 non-vtec Integra LS head) and a B18A block (2nd gen Integra 1.8 non-vtec LS block) with a B16A (1st gen 1.6 Civic Si/JDM 2nd gen Integra Vtec head) both had AWESOME power though I like the torque of the first one better even without vtec. Plus I could use the stock wiring and ecu from the non-vtec integra in was in with minor mods. It's a super easy build.

I would think, even though they're new generation, the fact that they kept the same engine code, that the porting would be the same as the older generation (Beams non included). I was thinking of just getting a 5S-FE block and TRY to find a COMPLETE 3S-GE top end (without actually buying an entire swap). Gonna be kinda hard being that the only one willing to sell one is someone who probably blew up the bottom end. Might be hard to find. But yes, I would replace all the internals. I wonder if stock 3S-GE pistons would fit into a 5S block? We do that kinda crap in Honda's all the time. I will admit, Honda's are nice Lego's lol. Well USED to be. Now the engines are all different. I'll stick with my 80's and 90's imports all day thank you.

[celica74]

Couldnt agree more about imports. Yes hondas are walmart legos. Just built a b20 block with a b18 vtec head and turbo for my budies civic hatch. 10k later 450hp was put down. Wish toyotas were the same. Deff. Get your hands on a 3sge head. Would be interesting to see how well they fit(oil/water). And look up the bore and wrist pin diameter. Might work. Find the dish size and get a compression ratio if you were to throw them in.

[Box]

Toyota, why you is difficult? Would be interested in seeing someone complete some hybrid engine builds with Toyota.