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> Building a diypnp, Standalone harness wiring
post Feb 7, 2016 - 6:48 PM
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HardHead93

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QUOTE (lagos @ Jan 29, 2016 - 12:49 PM) *
Any progress on this project?


I had some problems with the oil feed line to the turbo so I had to fix that. Now I am back on working with the diypnp. I can get the car to start but I cannot keep it idling without putting my foot on the gas. What exactly am I supposed to see on the high speed logger because the RPM signal is all over the place?

This post has been edited by HardHead93: Feb 7, 2016 - 11:46 PM
post Aug 6, 2016 - 11:26 AM
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Got the DIYPNP running exactly like I want it to but I am still having trouble figuring out the AC idle up. I have been working with the guys over at DIYAutoTune and I am still having problems. I took voltage measurements off the AC pinouts on the ECU and came up with the following:
With the A/C off:
AC1: 0.15V
ACT: 0.15V
ATS: 0.00V

With the A/C on:
AC1: 0.29V
ACT: 5.55V
ATS: 0.00V

The zero voltage on the ATS pin make sense because when I looked at the factory harness there was no wire connected to it.

The guys at at DIYAutoTune told me to do the following:
"Try wiring ACT to the nitrous input IN and the OUT to an unused input (FLEX or PE1), and use this for A/C idle up."
When I did that the AC compressor clutch would not kick on. I really want to figure this out because when I run the AC the additional load causes the car to sometimes stall at idle. Any ideas?
post Aug 9, 2016 - 1:21 PM
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lagos



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Glad you were able to get the unit working!

Here is what I did for AC idle up.
I disconnected all AC1, ACT, ATS connections. With nothing hooked up to the ecu, the ac compressor would come on just fine.
Next, I looked at the vehicle wiring diagram to determine the wire that ground switches the ac compressor relay in the passengers side fuse box.
I cut that wire and ran the ground signal into the Flex pin. Then I connected the PA0 output to control the ac relay.

I believe the in order to use the PA0 output, you have to run it into the in port of relay1,relay2 or relay3 of the DIYPNP circuit board. Just double check this in the assembly documentation.

Does the car stall at idle or deceleration?



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15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
post Aug 9, 2016 - 1:44 PM
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QUOTE
With the A/C on:
AC1: 0.29V
ACT: 5.55V
ATS: 0.00V



You can also try sending 5v to AC1 to see if the compressor comes on.


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post Aug 9, 2016 - 11:06 PM
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HardHead93

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QUOTE (lagos @ Aug 9, 2016 - 1:21 PM) *
Glad you were able to get the unit working!

Here is what I did for AC idle up.
I disconnected all AC1, ACT, ATS connections. With nothing hooked up to the ecu, the ac compressor would come on just fine.
Next, I looked at the vehicle wiring diagram to determine the wire that ground switches the ac compressor relay in the passengers side fuse box.
I cut that wire and ran the ground signal into the Flex pin. Then I connected the PA0 output to control the ac relay.

I believe the in order to use the PA0 output, you have to run it into the in port of relay1,relay2 or relay3 of the DIYPNP circuit board. Just double check this in the assembly documentation.

Does the car stall at idle or deceleration?


Yes, when the AC is on the moment I push the clutch in the car stalls. I sent an e-mail to DIYAutoTune and got the following response back:

"It looks like the magnetic clutch is triggered by the "MCG" pin on the ECU. You'll want to configure the DIYPNP to use an on/off output on that pin, set as the "A/C idle up output" pin."

The only other AC pin on the ECU for my car is the AC1. Is that the AC idle up signal? The ACT is used for cutting the AC when the car is under high load which explains why the AC stops working when I connect to that pinout.

QUOTE (lagos @ Aug 9, 2016 - 2:44 PM) *
QUOTE
With the A/C on:
AC1: 0.29V
ACT: 5.55V
ATS: 0.00V



You can also try sending 5v to AC1 to see if the compressor comes on.


Do you mean wire the PAO to the AC1 pinout and set TunerStudio for 5V signal?

This post has been edited by HardHead93: Aug 9, 2016 - 11:07 PM
post Aug 10, 2016 - 1:08 PM
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lagos



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QUOTE
Yes, when the AC is on the moment I push the clutch in the car stalls


When driving or when the car is at idle?


QUOTE
"It looks like the magnetic clutch is triggered by the "MCG" pin on the ECU. You'll want to configure the DIYPNP to use an on/off output on that pin, set as the "A/C idle up output" pin."


I don't think there is an MCG pin on the ecu?


QUOTE
Do you mean wire the PAO to the AC1 pinout and set TunerStudio for 5V signal?


Yes but in order to use PA0 for anything, you need to run it through a transistor first (one of the relays on the circuit board).
See the programable on/off section here:
https://www.diyautotune.com/support/tech/ha...On/Off_Outputs_

I would also check this functionality with a multimeter to make sure that it changes to a voltage switching circuit.


Remember that if all of this fails, you can just intercept the ground switching wire that goes to the AC relay like I did.


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post Aug 10, 2016 - 2:18 PM
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QUOTE (lagos @ Aug 10, 2016 - 1:08 PM) *
QUOTE
Yes, when the AC is on the moment I push the clutch in the car stalls


When driving or when the car is at idle?


QUOTE
"It looks like the magnetic clutch is triggered by the "MCG" pin on the ECU. You'll want to configure the DIYPNP to use an on/off output on that pin, set as the "A/C idle up output" pin."


I don't think there is an MCG pin on the ecu?


QUOTE
Do you mean wire the PAO to the AC1 pinout and set TunerStudio for 5V signal?


Yes but in order to use PA0 for anything, you need to run it through a transistor first (one of the relays on the circuit board).
See the programable on/off section here:
https://www.diyautotune.com/support/tech/ha...On/Off_Outputs_

I would also check this functionality with a multimeter to make sure that it changes to a voltage switching circuit.


Remember that if all of this fails, you can just intercept the ground switching wire that goes to the AC relay like I did.


The car stalls when I take the load off the engine for too long, so yes it happens when I idle or if I chose to coast not in gear. This only happens when I have the AC running. If I blip the throttle before the RPMs get to low I can sometimes stop the car from stalling and it will catch itself and continue to idle, although the idle is really weak.
post Aug 10, 2016 - 4:55 PM
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Send me your MSQ file. lagos3sgte@gmail.com

AC idle up helps the engine get a smoother transition when the ac comes on, but its not always what is responsible for stalling issues like that.


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post Aug 11, 2016 - 9:03 PM
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QUOTE (lagos @ Aug 10, 2016 - 4:55 PM) *
Send me your MSQ file. lagos3sgte@gmail.com

AC idle up helps the engine get a smoother transition when the ac comes on, but its not always what is responsible for stalling issues like that.


I just installed some WebCams in the engine, I will send you the file once I do a couple pulls this weekend with the new camshafts and get AutoTune to adjust the fuel table.
post Aug 11, 2016 - 11:35 PM
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QUOTE (HardHead93 @ Aug 11, 2016 - 10:03 PM) *
QUOTE (lagos @ Aug 10, 2016 - 4:55 PM) *
Send me your MSQ file. lagos3sgte@gmail.com

AC idle up helps the engine get a smoother transition when the ac comes on, but its not always what is responsible for stalling issues like that.


I just installed some WebCams in the engine, I will send you the file once I do a couple pulls this weekend with the new camshafts and get AutoTune to adjust the fuel table.



Your stalling is probably cause by an overrun fuel cut setting or some oddness in your fuel table, hence why I asked for the file. The WOT pulls don't matter for this.


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post Aug 15, 2016 - 10:46 PM
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I sent you my tune file over the weekend. Have you had a chance to take a look at it? I can already see my overrun fuel cut settings are off. I am trying to get a basic tune together to make the car safe. I plan to take the car to Phoenix, AZ to get a good dyno tune (not many good tuners around here). I have a couple of other questions:
1. I used the Megasquirt online tool to set up my timing map. Do you know how to get a copy of the stock 5sfe ECU ignition timing map? Any tips when adjusting the ignition timing map?
2. How do you set up the knock sensor?

This post has been edited by HardHead93: Aug 15, 2016 - 11:14 PM
post Aug 16, 2016 - 3:17 PM
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lagos



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I updated your tune file with some new settings and emailed it back to you. I have a few comments.

1. What injectors are you using? Are they 460cc rx7 red injectors? If so, I believe those are commonly used in Miats and the correct dead time (lag time) might be around 1.2. You might want to google search to see if you can find an exact value.

2. Injector battery voltage correction:
After you input the correct dead time and tune the fuel map in the idle cells to 14.7, disconnect the oval plug from your alternator while the car is running. Then watch the ego correction gauge and adjust that battery correction factor so that your idle is still 14.7 with zero ego correction at about 11-12v. The value I used for my car works well for me, but it might be different on your car due to having different injectors.

3. In the overrun fuel cut I originally had some settings that would cause the car to stall when driving with AC on. I adjusted the settings to the new values in your tune.

4. in the Ignition Options menu there is a setting for Hardware Spark Latency. You need to tune this specifically to your car. Set the ignition timing to FIXED timing @ 15 degress. Use a timing light to set your base timing. Then while still in that mode, rev the engine up and hold the rpm while watching the timing light. If your timing drifts down from 15 degress, adjust the hardware spark latency until it is steady through the rev range. On my car I found a value of about 190 worked well, however your car might not need this setting and having 190 in that field could potentially cause your engine to run too much timing advance.

5. I loaded up the 3sgte base Ignition map into your tune and took out a few degrees due to it being a high compression motor. The map should work okay on the 5sfe, but you should really have this tuned on a load bearing dyno (not a basic Dynojet). I have never seen a 5sfe timing map so its all just guess work.

6. I use a J&S Safeguard for knock detection because the built in knock control is not that great on the diypnp. However someone on mr2oc posted about the settings that he used when setting his up.

7. As you know, you really need to tune the VE table using the autotune feature in Tunerstudio. The values that you have in there right now are far from correct and will cause all kinds of stalling issues as the engine lacks fuel in certain cells where it comes back down to idle.

This post has been edited by lagos: Aug 17, 2016 - 12:10 AM


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post Aug 19, 2016 - 10:42 AM
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QUOTE (lagos @ Aug 16, 2016 - 3:17 PM) *
I updated your tune file with some new settings and emailed it back to you. I have a few comments.

1. What injectors are you using? Are they 460cc rx7 red injectors? If so, I believe those are commonly used in Miats and the correct dead time (lag time) might be around 1.2. You might want to google search to see if you can find an exact value.

2. Injector battery voltage correction:
After you input the correct dead time and tune the fuel map in the idle cells to 14.7, disconnect the oval plug from your alternator while the car is running. Then watch the ego correction gauge and adjust that battery correction factor so that your idle is still 14.7 with zero ego correction at about 11-12v. The value I used for my car works well for me, but it might be different on your car due to having different injectors.

3. In the overrun fuel cut I originally had some settings that would cause the car to stall when driving with AC on. I adjusted the settings to the new values in your tune.

4. in the Ignition Options menu there is a setting for Hardware Spark Latency. You need to tune this specifically to your car. Set the ignition timing to FIXED timing @ 15 degress. Use a timing light to set your base timing. Then while still in that mode, rev the engine up and hold the rpm while watching the timing light. If your timing drifts down from 15 degress, adjust the hardware spark latency until it is steady through the rev range. On my car I found a value of about 190 worked well, however your car might not need this setting and having 190 in that field could potentially cause your engine to run too much timing advance.

5. I loaded up the 3sgte base Ignition map into your tune and took out a few degrees due to it being a high compression motor. The map should work okay on the 5sfe, but you should really have this tuned on a load bearing dyno (not a basic Dynojet). I have never seen a 5sfe timing map so its all just guess work.

6. I use a J&S Safeguard for knock detection because the built in knock control is not that great on the diypnp. However someone on mr2oc posted about the settings that he used when setting his up.

7. As you know, you really need to tune the VE table using the autotune feature in Tunerstudio. The values that you have in there right now are far from correct and will cause all kinds of stalling issues as the engine lacks fuel in certain cells where it comes back down to idle.


Thanks for all the help! I went and found the injector dead time for the 460cc RX7 injectors that I am using and got the following values:

1.185 @ 14.4V or 1.2 @13.4V

I enriched a couple of cells around the idle and plan to do the autotune and adjust any timing drift this weekend. As for setting up the stock knock sensor, DIYAUTOTUNE provided me with the following information:

There's not much adjustment here - you'll just want to adjust the sensitivity trim pot to the point where it JUST won't pick up knock on a safe tune.

For settings in TunerStudio, see this link.

http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/html/Megasq...ce-3.4-110.html
post Aug 19, 2016 - 11:40 AM
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QUOTE
1.185 @ 14.4V or 1.2 @13.4V


Awesome!
So use 1.2 but ALSO make sure to check the battery voltage correction by disconnecting the oval plug on the alternator as I described.
Its super critical to do this before trying to tune the VE table because if those settings are not correct, you will have all kinds of fueling issues when humidity or temperature changes.


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post Aug 19, 2016 - 9:46 PM
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QUOTE (lagos @ Aug 19, 2016 - 11:40 AM) *
QUOTE
1.185 @ 14.4V or 1.2 @13.4V


Awesome!
So use 1.2 but ALSO make sure to check the battery voltage correction by disconnecting the oval plug on the alternator as I described.
Its super critical to do this before trying to tune the VE table because if those settings are not correct, you will have all kinds of fueling issues when humidity or temperature changes.


So I went through and tried to tune my idle to 14.5 - 14.7 AFR and the car kept on dying out. It would hunt around the fuel and ignition table for a while before finally just sputtering out. I did some research and found when the idle isn't steady it is most likely an ignition timing issue. I went to a fixed timing of 10 degrees BTDC the car idled better but still was giving me trouble so I started adding fuel until the the idle was strong and that was at 13.2 AFR. The timing table you had set up for me had the cells for idle set to 19 BTDC. I remember when I took some logs of the car when I had the AEM piggyback and stock ECU kept the timing at 8-10 BTDC at idle. Also, I remember reading somewhere that the 5sfe likes to run a little rich especially at idle. I used the Megasquirt timing table estimator along with you table and created a hybrid of the two that would give me a good idle but some good timing for boost as well. Problem solved. I then worked on the voltage correction and got the EGO correction gauge to stay at 100%. Tomorrow I will ensure that timing does not float when I am on the throttle and then start auto tuning the rest of the fuel table.

This post has been edited by HardHead93: Aug 19, 2016 - 9:48 PM
post Aug 21, 2016 - 4:23 PM
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Keep the same afr target table. The car should idle just fine at 14.7 AFR. Here are a few things to try to fix this.

1. turn off ego correction. Sometimes if the values in the PID section are not correct, it will cause oscillation. Turn it off to see if its causing the problem.
2. turn off closed loop idle. The PID values might be wrong, or you need to set up the initial idle values table to work better with your setup.
3. The timing table might be at 19 degrees, but the actual value the car idles at comes from Idle Adaptive Advance. Try changing that graph to a single value like 15 degrees.

This post has been edited by lagos: Aug 21, 2016 - 4:25 PM


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post Aug 21, 2016 - 6:55 PM
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QUOTE (lagos @ Aug 21, 2016 - 5:23 PM) *
Keep the same afr target table. The car should idle just fine at 14.7 AFR. Here are a few things to try to fix this.

1. turn off ego correction. Sometimes if the values in the PID section are not correct, it will cause oscillation. Turn it off to see if its causing the problem.
2. turn off closed loop idle. The PID values might be wrong, or you need to set up the initial idle values table to work better with your setup.
3. The timing table might be at 19 degrees, but the actual value the car idles at comes from Idle Adaptive Advance. Try changing that graph to a single value like 15 degrees.


You were right! I turned off EGO correction, set to open loop (warm up) idle, and changed the Idle Adaptive Advance table. The Idle Adaptive Advance table was set to 20 degrees, no wonder I was having problems. I played with it and the fuel table. Now the idle is steady at 12-13 degrees (checked with a timing light) with an AFR between 14.5 and 14.7. I also re-entered the 3sgte table you gave me with the timing taken out up top.
post Aug 23, 2016 - 10:12 AM
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Awesome !

Keep in mind that you're going to want to re-enable things like ego correction and closed loop idle, but you should do them one by one until you get settings that don't oscillate. I would start out with tuning closed loop idle. You can use the test mode for the idle control valve to find some basic values to enter into your initial target table for the current temperature. Then if you have any oscillation, you will have to adjust the Proportional Integral and Derivative terms. EGO also uses PID for closed loop. Its not a bad idea to look up some videos to learn more about PID tuning on youtube.


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post Aug 29, 2016 - 10:14 AM
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QUOTE (lagos @ Aug 10, 2016 - 2:08 PM) *
QUOTE
Yes, when the AC is on the moment I push the clutch in the car stalls


When driving or when the car is at idle?


QUOTE
"It looks like the magnetic clutch is triggered by the "MCG" pin on the ECU. You'll want to configure the DIYPNP to use an on/off output on that pin, set as the "A/C idle up output" pin."


I don't think there is an MCG pin on the ecu?


QUOTE
Do you mean wire the PAO to the AC1 pinout and set TunerStudio for 5V signal?


Yes but in order to use PA0 for anything, you need to run it through a transistor first (one of the relays on the circuit board).
See the programable on/off section here:
https://www.diyautotune.com/support/tech/ha...On/Off_Outputs_

I would also check this functionality with a multimeter to make sure that it changes to a voltage switching circuit.


Remember that if all of this fails, you can just intercept the ground switching wire that goes to the AC relay like I did.


I tried to use the AC1 pinout on the ECU for idle up and it did not work. I am going to have to wire the idle up the way you did. Do you remember where the ground switching wire is under the hood? Is it close to the relay box where the fan relays and AC clutch relay is?
post Aug 29, 2016 - 11:04 PM
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Yup, the wire goes directly to that relay box to switch the AC relay.


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