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> Dorman RAV4 5x114.3 Conversion Manufacturer Issue, We are going to break this case WIDE open
post May 10, 2016 - 7:40 AM
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Tigawoods



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This thread is now a product warning thread on the Dorman Wheel hubs for the RAV4.

I have found an issue with the Dorman 930- 419 RAV4 front wheel hubs used in the 5x100 to 5x114.3 conversion.

The studs that come in these Dorman hubs have a tapered shoulder with a knurl diameter that goes from 12.46-12.60mm
The OE replacement studs for a majority of Toyota vehicles is 14.20mm (Dormans listed studs for the RAV4 are 14.20)


Now in the case that you dont plan on having any issue with you hub this shouldnt be a problem for you and happy swapping, but...


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If you somehow break a stud or need a replacement for any reason, the hub either needs to be replaced or re-bored
If you want extended studs from companies like ARP you will either need to re-bore the holes or (I am getting in studs tomorrow that I hope will fit and will update this)
I havent looked around for a OE size stud that might be able to match the 12.6 knurl diameter maybe for some other car, that might take some time, most OE sizes seem to be above 13mm or so
********

I called Dorman to get more info and they are well aware of this issue and dont know why its being manufactured that way.


Here is a pic of IS300 ARP Wheel Studs (14.17mm Knurl Diamter) Next to the Dorman Studs that came out of the wheel hub
These ARP studs WOULD have fit if the hub were the spec it should be.


This post has been edited by Tigawoods: May 16, 2016 - 12:58 PM


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post May 10, 2016 - 9:02 AM
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HectortheRican



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Assuming the original studs didn't stretch out the holes too much, option one may work they're only barely off. 0.03mm is approx 0.001" and being that much off isn't too horrible in terms of press fit tolerances. If it were a bearing, 0.001" is huge - but this may work.
Worst case scenario, you could do option two and really hammer that sucker in - maybe try to sand off the tiniest bit of knurl. You'll be ~0.005-0.006" over and that's a pretty big amount for a press fit.

All in all, still give ARP a call - they would know more than me. I hope they don't have dopey reps answering the phone because they'll just tell you it won't work. Sometimes an email requesting an engineer's opinion works - I've had luck with those emails when researching for a design.

This post has been edited by HectortheRican: May 10, 2016 - 9:30 AM


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post May 10, 2016 - 9:30 AM
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yeah if 14.20-22 is already the proper spec for the stud bores, I am leaning towards the 14.17 studs, the 14.35 might just be too much on top of a spec that should already be "max" tolerance for the stud bore.
I dont really feel like forcing them through and concurrently widening the stud bore, that might cause issues with part swaps farther down the line.

the 14.17mm are $35 for 5
the 14.35mm are $61 for 5 cwm13.gif

the larger ones DO have a favorable spec that the smaller ones dont, it the knurl length.
the OE knurl length is 8.001mm (edit the shoulder height is 8mm, the knurl length looks to be around 6mm)
14.35mm studs have a knurl length of 8.25mm
14.17 have a 6.9mm length


update:
Called ARP and not really giving me any more details they said that the smaller knurl studs would be the best choice.

The larger knurl studs from ARP are studs for a 86-89 Celica GTS, RockAuto lists the same 14.22mm studs for the 86-89 Celica GTS as the 14.22mm studs that are listed as working for the 97 RAV4.

I bought the smaller ARPs and will try them out

This post has been edited by Tigawoods: May 10, 2016 - 1:37 PM


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post May 10, 2016 - 2:11 PM
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HectortheRican



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QUOTE (Tigawoods @ May 10, 2016 - 8:30 AM) *
update:
Called ARP and not really giving me any more details they said that the smaller knurl studs would be the best choice.

The larger knurl studs from ARP are studs for a 86-89 Celica GTS, RockAuto lists the same 14.22mm studs for the 86-89 Celica GTS as the 14.22mm studs that are listed as working for the 97 RAV4.

I bought the smaller ARPs and will try them out


Let us know how they work! How thick is the Rav4 spindle plate? 6.9mm vs 8.25mm knurl length is pretty big.


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post May 10, 2016 - 2:39 PM
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Tigawoods



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it should be somewhere around 8mm.

The OE studs have a 8mm under head shoulder lenght and that shouldn't really protrude from the hub surface much if any.

the 6.9mm spec is for the knurls and the shoulder is longer than the knurl height. The 8.25mm might be close to 8.5mm or more in actual shoulder height.


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post May 11, 2016 - 1:48 PM
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I want curly fries


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post May 16, 2016 - 12:50 PM
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bump for new information


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post May 16, 2016 - 4:00 PM
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njccmd2002



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unfortunately those hubs, if aftermarket, will never be to spec. they are not designed with mind for them to be modified i guess. that sucks,


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post May 16, 2016 - 5:09 PM
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Wait whu?? Rav4 hubs on a celica?? 5x114wha?? Seriously?! God damn, I must be living under a rock or sothing...lmao


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post May 16, 2016 - 9:25 PM
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Tigawoods



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QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ May 16, 2016 - 5:00 PM) *
unfortunately those hubs, if aftermarket, will never be to spec. they are not designed with mind for them to be modified i guess. that sucks,

but then they sell studs....that wont fit the hubs they sell. that doesnt make sense.

QUOTE (presure2 @ May 16, 2016 - 6:09 PM) *
Wait whu?? Rav4 hubs on a celica?? 5x114wha?? Seriously?! God damn, I must be living under a rock or sothing...lmao

This is 2011 stuff brotha!!

This post has been edited by Tigawoods: May 16, 2016 - 9:25 PM


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post May 20, 2016 - 2:14 PM
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Tigawoods



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So I have contacted Dorman, MOOG, Dura Intl, WJB and they all use smaller knurled studs for their RAV4 and Camry hubs.

The world has gone mad!

This post has been edited by Tigawoods: May 20, 2016 - 2:14 PM


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post May 20, 2016 - 5:34 PM
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njccmd2002



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But they dont have replacement studs. Have to buy a whle thing. Lol. Woow


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post May 21, 2016 - 4:29 PM
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good info, but breaking a stud is a bit rare unless you overtighten or some other extreme situation. Rockauto sells them pretty cheap as well. you can also decide on using the camry's own if it makes a difference. Nonetheless, something good to know. More info the merrier.


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post May 22, 2016 - 12:29 AM
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Tigawoods



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QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ May 20, 2016 - 6:34 PM) *
But they dont have replacement studs. Have to buy a whle thing. Lol. Woow



QUOTE (trdproven @ May 21, 2016 - 5:29 PM) *
good info, but breaking a stud is a bit rare unless you overtighten or some other extreme situation. Rockauto sells them pretty cheap as well. you can also decide on using the camry's own if it makes a difference. Nonetheless, something good to know. More info the merrier.




Well yesterday I realized the only way to prevent all this drilling and other nonsense is to get hubs from Toyota (about $130 each) or find a used hub from a junkyard or some car guys. Thats the only way youll be getting the RIGHT knurl spec and not this aftermarket OE nonsense


Yeah stud breaking is very very rare, I guess this whole thing is really more for people that want to run extended lugs on a 5x114.3 setup....which may just be me lol.


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post May 26, 2016 - 5:43 PM
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trdproven



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I relooked at all the measurements between a camry and a celica and they are exact matches, I updated the thread for the conversion. Take a look. Rockauto has the matching OE parts measurements for aftermarket replacement of the conversion.


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post May 27, 2016 - 6:19 AM
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Tigawoods



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everything else is in spec other than this stud bore.
I picked up some junkyard kunkles/hubs from a 03 Solara and it has the proper stud bore of 14.20mm like OE should be. Not 12.60mm like these "OE replacements" are selling on rockauto or the like


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