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> 3sgte 4th gen swap, Hello I am trying to swap my Toyota Celica 97 gt to a 3sgte 4th gen
post Sep 21, 2017 - 12:53 PM
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Tmiller

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I have the 3sgte 4th gen engine on the way and getting things ready to go! Looking for help and ways to get it going ! Right now I have done alot of research and talked to tons of people. I was wondering if I could get some help with my project . Right now I'm planning on running the engine stock I made sure it came with the 3sgte hanress and ecu and im getting a flywheel and clutch kit . Iv been looking around and doing research and I might attempt my wiring harness myself I have two harnesses and I might just try it . But I also need help from people that have experience with the swap and the 6gen community. Helping me find parts, and help me get it on the road with a wonder build ! I hope this goes well , would appreciate all the help I can get !
post Sep 21, 2017 - 3:42 PM
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richee3



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The harness will not be a small task. I personally feel that it is money well spent to have Wiregap make the harness, as it allows you to focus more on the engine and know your harness will be 100% plug and play and be well made. However, if you are so inclined, please take as many pictures and write as many notes as possible and let us know how it goes! Your clutch will depend on which transmission you use. If you are using the Celicaís S54 trans, the Southbend clutches are highly recommended. What will you be doing about an intercooler? Good luck, take lots of pictures, and happy boosting!


--------------------
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others labored hard for." -Socrates. Even Socrates told us to use the search button!

Mine- 1997 Supra- TT 6 speed, BPU. 460 whp.
Hers- 1998 Celica GT-
BEAMS Swapped.
Ours- 2016 4Runner Trail Edition.
post Sep 21, 2017 - 4:28 PM
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Tmiller

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I am using the stock 5sfe tranny for my car and I was told I need a flywheel and pressure plate for my 3sgte engine is that okay ? And as far as the intercooler goes I was told I was okay using just a filter and stuff for now but some people say it runs to hot .. I'm not really sure I can't say i know like everything that why I need help and I wanna learn iv been doing tons and tons of research everyday thank you for helping me !
post Sep 21, 2017 - 5:40 PM
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njccmd2002



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harness altough is very difficult, its the most important part of the swap. Most pay to have this service done. However i would recommend you try to do it. Because it would give you a good idea of how the car is wired, works and help you trouble shoot in an instant.

wiring gremlins are a pain, especially if you dont know where to look. like navigating the car without gps at night.

At the end your choice....

I can attest, having to wire more than 125 wires for my 2gr swap having no previous experience



--------------------
Learned a lot in 10 years...

2grfe Swapped... Never Satisfied .. always something to do

A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within.


llamaraxing @ Imgur, Ebay and Instagram
post Sep 21, 2017 - 6:07 PM
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Tmiller

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QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Sep 21, 2017 - 6:40 PM) *
harness altough is very difficult, its the most important part of the swap. Most pay to have this service done. However i would recommend you try to do it. Because it would give you a good idea of how the car is wired, works and help you trouble shoot in an instant.

wiring gremlins are a pain, especially if you dont know where to look. like navigating the car without gps at night.

At the end your choice....

I can attest, having to wire more than 125 wires for my 2gr swap having no previous experience


I see I see I was going to try and do the harness myself I have two 5sfe harnesses from the same year both 97. But I'm a little worried I might mess up but I just need help with figure out what I need for my swap to run it stock I know I need the harness done then flywheel and pressure plate so I'll need the clutch kit . But I'm running my stock 5sfe tranny with the 3sgte so I'm confused on the pressure plate thing . But that's what people say I know I might need a fuel pump and a intercooler thats all I know for now and we'll of course some gagues
post Sep 21, 2017 - 8:09 PM
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njccmd2002



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ok the basic approach to wire a swap that i took is easy.

A car is an electrical circuit like any other. and the job is to integrate new engine into the cars existing electrical.

1. First and foremost you need the celica EWD wiring diagragm book
2. Need the wiring diagram of the engine control of the engine to be swapped.
3. Understand the importance of grounds and their locations, these must not be changed.
4. Understand the importance of shielded wires and their function. dont skip on these.
5. Relays, how they work and their use, and the different kinds of relays the celica has.
6. Proper way to solder wires.
7. beleive it or not, extra, extra donor harnesses, to get the color wires you need and appropiate gauge... (keeping same color wires, helps to trace them..)

next is to understand the celica engine harness. Connects the EA1 plug and fuse box to the engine and to the junction boxes underneath the radio, they have a name, dont remember.... lol

the wires that come from the engine need to be removed. you wont need those. you have to integrate new wires from new engine, into the existing celica engine harness.

Understand the functions and why there are junctions, fuses, and other little nifty things here and there.

The way i tackled is i drew a road map. and that helped a lot. took 2 weeks to do it, but i can wire as many 2grs as i want just by following it...

i added relays on mine, and used existing relays for other needs as i felt comfortable. almost all relays do the same function, except the Circuit opening relay and some fan relays. Most relays use a low amp current to operate a high one....

at the end came up with this...

2grfecopy


and now i have my own path, that i followed. At the end, i found mistakes, but i knew where to look for them, and a single ground, prevented the engine from starting.

A 4th gen engine is not going to be complicated as this one....trust me. I had no experience...., but i had lots of determination....

Good luck...


--------------------
Learned a lot in 10 years...

2grfe Swapped... Never Satisfied .. always something to do

A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within.


llamaraxing @ Imgur, Ebay and Instagram
post Sep 21, 2017 - 9:52 PM
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njccmd2002



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http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=73787


--------------------
Learned a lot in 10 years...

2grfe Swapped... Never Satisfied .. always something to do

A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within.


llamaraxing @ Imgur, Ebay and Instagram
post Sep 21, 2017 - 10:07 PM
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richee3



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Addressing the clutch, the S54 Transmission (what your GT has) has a different number of splines on the input shaft than the E series transmissions that come on the 3S-GTEís, so you need a 3S-GTE flywheel, 3S disc with 5S splines, and a 3S pressure plate. If you call Southbend Clutch and tell them what you have, theyíll make the clutch you need. However, always use the OEM Toyota throwout bearing. It seems like the aftermarket ones always fail. A lot of people run an F1 Racing lightweight flywheel from eBay with no issues. You will also need a Walbro 255 lph fuel pump or a Supra TT fuel pump. The stock GT fuel pump cannot keep up with the 3S. As far as the intercooler goes, you have a couple of options. You can use the stock 4th gen top mount intercooler but you will need to cut a hole in your hood and use an aftermarket hood scoop, or youíll have to replace the top mount intercooler with a front mount. The 3rd gen 3S-GTEís use a water to air intercooler so no hood scoop or front mount is necessary, but the 4th gen uses an air to air intercooler which was fed by a hood scoop on the Caldina. The intercooler would have no air flow in a Celica though.


--------------------
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others labored hard for." -Socrates. Even Socrates told us to use the search button!

Mine- 1997 Supra- TT 6 speed, BPU. 460 whp.
Hers- 1998 Celica GT-
BEAMS Swapped.
Ours- 2016 4Runner Trail Edition.
post Sep 22, 2017 - 12:00 AM
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Tmiller

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I am going to be using my 5sfe tranny but I realize now I need the flywheel for the 3sgte and since I'm using the 5sfe tranny I need a clutch and pressure plate for my tranny(5sfe) thank you for the diagram and help. What else do I need for the swap ? Like I know the basics I got I need the harness, flywheel, fuel pump . What else just to run the car stock ? Im sure I know more I just can't think of it right now
post Sep 22, 2017 - 12:38 AM
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HardHead93

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I did a 4th gen 3sgte last winter and it is awesome! I am guessing you got the motor from a supplier who imports them. For piece of mind I did the following to freshen up the motor:
1. Crankshaft seal rear
2. PCV grommet
3. Valve cover gaskets
4. Water pump and gasket
5. Timing belt - Sun brand
6. Timing belt tensioner
7. Thermostat and gasket
8. Spark plugs
9. Lower timing idler
​10. Oil pump o-ring and seal
11. Camshaft Seals
12. Convert to 3 inch cat-less downpipe
13. Light weight flywheel
14. Axle Seals
15. Magnet Oil Pan plug
You can get all those parts from PrimeMR2.com. Stick to OEM parts as much as possible. I know most of these companies say that the motor has less than 60k miles on it but unless they show you the original odometer, how do you know for sure. I lost my first 3s due to it being a worn out motor so an engine freshen up will never hurt.

For the intercooler, I started with an air to air intercooler and I was having engine heat issues because it blocked the radiator. I think part of the problem is due to the hot, high elevation climate I live in. Here are some pics of the air to air setup.


I now have a water to air intercooler and I love it. Here are some pics of the water to air set up.


The air to air is cheaper but the intercooler piping can be tricky. The water to air was more expensive but it really cleaned up my engine bay.

As for the wiring, I sent it out to WireGap. It cost me $500, I sent him my 5s and my 3s wiring and he combined them into 1 plug-n-play system. He is so detailed that he even put the clip on where the wiring attaches to the motor. It looks almost stock. He provides connections for you to plug in a tach adapter and will even provide power and ground for an intercooler water pump on request. Save yourself the headache and let the pros do the work for you.

Like they stated above, you need a 3s flywheel, 3s pressure plate, 5s clutch disk, and 5s throwout bearing. I will emphasize to get an OEM throwout bearing. Most of these clutch kits come with Chinese knockoff bearings that die after 2k miles. Mine did and it sucked to have to replace that with the motor in the car.

I have hit almost every problem possible with my swap some due to bad luck and some due to not listening to all the knowledge on this forum. The rule I learned the hard way was the cheapest way is almost always not the best way.

This post has been edited by HardHead93: Sep 22, 2017 - 1:02 AM
post Sep 22, 2017 - 1:19 AM
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njccmd2002



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see opinions vary. I could have sent it to the "pros", but what could have i learned? in the end its your decision OP.

saved myself 500 that went to other stuff... And I can say i did it myself...


--------------------
Learned a lot in 10 years...

2grfe Swapped... Never Satisfied .. always something to do

A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within.


llamaraxing @ Imgur, Ebay and Instagram
post Sep 22, 2017 - 3:03 AM
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Tmiller

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So thats all I need to keep it stock for right now ? Depending on the engine and stuff I will most likely replace and buy new parts not trying to insult anyone's knowledge at ! So with my 5sfe tranny I was going to buy a 3sgte flywheel and the bolts and fun a stage 2 clutch kit for my tranny but I'm a little confused on the pressure plate like the 3s because I'm using my 5sfe tranny . Shouldnt I just use the 3s flywheel and then use the clutch kit and pressure plate for my tranny ? Or does it have to be custome made ? And so I'm looking at fuel pump , flywheel , clutch kit pressure plate, wiring(which I might attempt myself) and I'mma get a few gauges that I need is that all I need to run it stock ? Thank you guys so much I'm learning so much !
post Sep 22, 2017 - 9:28 AM
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richee3



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The clutch setup can be confusing, so Iíll try to explain it a little better. The flywheel bolts up to your crankshaft, so it needs to be for the 3S, not the 5S. The pressure plate bolts to the flywheel, so once again it needs to be 3S specific, not 5S. The clutch dish has splines in the center that the trans input shaft slide into, but most 5S/S54 discs wonít hold the power of the 3S, so most people run a hybrid disc which is a 3S disc with 5S splines. South end makes this disc pretty frequently and they are familiar with it, where most companies you call will not be willing to make a one off hybrid disc. South end clutches are modified Exedy clutches, very good stuff. As for the throwout bearing, stick to OEM. As Hardhead stated above, the aftermarket TOBís tend to fail pretty early on.

The clutch setup I have mentioned here is not your only option. Feel free to search the forum to see what other members have used. Iím just referencing what Iíve seen most 3S swaps use.


--------------------
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others labored hard for." -Socrates. Even Socrates told us to use the search button!

Mine- 1997 Supra- TT 6 speed, BPU. 460 whp.
Hers- 1998 Celica GT-
BEAMS Swapped.
Ours- 2016 4Runner Trail Edition.
post Sep 22, 2017 - 11:27 AM
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njccmd2002



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does anyone have the wiring documentation for the 4th gen 3sgte, would like to see the the feasability of creating a wiring diagram when im bored.... lol


--------------------
Learned a lot in 10 years...

2grfe Swapped... Never Satisfied .. always something to do

A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within.


llamaraxing @ Imgur, Ebay and Instagram
post Sep 22, 2017 - 11:55 AM
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HardHead93

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As far as gauges, I would recommend oil pressure, water temp, boost, and AFR. If you look around some of these readings can be combined into 1 gauge to save space. LoTek makes a good pillar gauge pod. Also, I am not sure how much boost you plan to run but if you do not get a boost controller the engine will only run 7-8 psi (wastegate pressure). If you want to turn up the boost don't go past 14 psi on 91 octane and 17 psi on 93 octane.

This post has been edited by HardHead93: Sep 22, 2017 - 11:57 AM
post Sep 22, 2017 - 1:15 PM
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njccmd2002



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all this good info needs to be summarized...


--------------------
Learned a lot in 10 years...

2grfe Swapped... Never Satisfied .. always something to do

A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within.


llamaraxing @ Imgur, Ebay and Instagram
post Sep 22, 2017 - 3:54 PM
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Tmiller

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So in other words I need a 3sgte flywheel with bolts and a 3sgte pressure plate and needs to be modified to go to the splines for the 5s and south end makes them I cant find them on eBay or anything like that ? What the place called so I can give them a call so what do they all do for me I have to buy the 3sgte flywheel and that make the pressure plate for me with a clutch kit to fit my 5s and I use my throw out barring ? Correct
post Sep 22, 2017 - 7:26 PM
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Tmiller

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So what I need to do is get a 3sgte flywheel and use my clutch kit for my 5s tranny and I'm good thats what I got idk if I'm not grasping it but I know I'll have to run a stage 2 at the least for the 3s engine
post Sep 22, 2017 - 9:10 PM
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QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Sep 22, 2017 - 2:15 PM) *
all this good info needs to be summarized...


I should start a thread. I am surprised there is not a gen 4 3sgte thread on 6gc.
post Sep 23, 2017 - 12:08 AM
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richee3



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QUOTE (Tmiller @ Sep 22, 2017 - 2:54 PM) *
So in other words I need a 3sgte flywheel with bolts and a 3sgte pressure plate and needs to be modified to go to the splines for the 5s and south end makes them I cant find them on eBay or anything like that ? What the place called so I can give them a call so what do they all do for me I have to buy the 3sgte flywheel and that make the pressure plate for me with a clutch kit to fit my 5s and I use my throw out barring ? Correct

Correct. They are called Southbend Clutches out of Fort Wayne, IN. You can contact them through their website, but calling them will get a faster response!


QUOTE (Tmiller @ Sep 22, 2017 - 6:26 PM) *
So what I need to do is get a 3sgte flywheel and use my clutch kit for my 5s tranny and I'm good thats what I got idk if I'm not grasping it but I know I'll have to run a stage 2 at the least for the 3s engine

Incorrect. A pressure plate for a 5S flywheel will not bolt up to a 3S flywheel, to my knowledge. The splines on the disc and the TOB will be the only thing in common with a 5S clutch kit.


QUOTE (HardHead93 @ Sep 22, 2017 - 8:10 PM) *
QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Sep 22, 2017 - 2:15 PM) *
all this good info needs to be summarized...


I should start a thread. I am surprised there is not a gen 4 3sgte thread on 6gc.

You definitely should! I would greatly appreciate it. Iíll need it in a few months. smile.gif


--------------------
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others labored hard for." -Socrates. Even Socrates told us to use the search button!

Mine- 1997 Supra- TT 6 speed, BPU. 460 whp.
Hers- 1998 Celica GT-
BEAMS Swapped.
Ours- 2016 4Runner Trail Edition.

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