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6G Celicas Forums > 6th Generation Celica > Suspension/Handling/Braking
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Harold_Fastwaker
So you want to be Dope Status now? Maybe your life goal is to make it on HellaFlush, well this is the offset numbers you need for that to happen.

First: You will need to run stretched tires for this to work and preferably a nicely lowered car.......... Or 4x4 your car and run it Donk status. I don't care, but you will have to choose one of those options.


FOR THE FRONT WHEELS ONLY **Your fronts should have been rolled from the factory. 9.0+ will probably need a bit of a roll to crush the plastic liner in a bit.
Width ---------- Offset (et)
6.0" ---------- et-5mm
6.5" ---------- et 0mm
7.0" ---------- et+10mm
7.5" ---------- et+15mm
8.0" ---------- et+22mm
8.5" ---------- et+27mm
9.0" ---------- et+33mm (you will be cutting it close with the strut. May need to start running negative camber at this point)
9.5" ---------- et+40mm (you will be cutting it close with the strut. Probably need to start running negative camber at this point)
10.0" ---------- et+45mm (At this point, you will need negative camber, a good fender pull and probably better off with a +35ish offset and going with wide fenders.)
10.5" ---------- et+50mm (At this point, you will need negative camber, a good fender pull and probably better off with a +35ish offset and going with wide fenders.)



FOR THE REAR WHEELS ONLY **You need to roll your fenders for all of these.
Width ---------- Offset (et)
6.0" ---------- et-20mm
6.5" ---------- et-15mm
7.0" ---------- et-8mm
7.5" ---------- et-2mm
8.0" ---------- et+5mm
8.5" ---------- et+10mm
9.0" ---------- et+18mm
9.5" ---------- et+23mm
10.0" ---------- et+30mm (Will start to cut it close with the strut. Negative camber may be needed. My best guess is you will be alright)
10.5" ---------- et+36mm (At this point, you will probably hit strut. Negative camber is needed. Probably would want to run a lower offset and just pull the crap out of your rear fender to make it tuck.)


As for tires, I highly suggest you run 45 series tires and I HIGHLY recommend Falken 512s. They handle stretching very well.


These numbers will make your wheel flush with the body. If you want to wheel to poke then run a lower offset then I have listed. This in turn means you need to run a smaller diameter tire and some negative camber.




Spacers:
For those of you who need a 25mm spacer or larger for your look. I suggest A-Dapt-It USA (http://adaptitusa.com/) or Motorsport Technologies (http://www.motorsport-tech.com/)
The A-Dapt-It's will be cheaper and will be lug centric to the wheel. Motorsport Tech can make you hubcentric to hubcentric adapters which are double the cost of A-Dapt-It's. Either choice is fine, I run lug centric and so do plenty of other people. Toyota still ships cars off the assembly line with lug centric wheels. Don't let the scare tactics of hubcentric or die mess with your head. With lug centric you just need to tighten your lugnuts in the standard star pattern starting from the top.






This thread was made separate due to not wanting to have an e-thug battle.
95CelicaST
Vote for sticky
Harold_Fastwaker
Lets talk about Lug Centric Vs Hub Centric Wheels

The difference:
Lug centric wheels have the mounts drilled for conical seating lug nuts. When properly installed in a star pattern starting from the top and working your way around as you tighten them down you will center the wheel. (Note: if you just crank the top lug nut down then crank the others your wheel will not be centered and will have vibration issues.)

Hub centric wheels use a hub centric ring to maintain wheel centering. When the hub centric ring is properly sized for both the center bore of your hub and the center bore of your wheel then when mounted it will properly center. (This does not me just crank down the top lug and then the others. You still need to properly tighten them in the star pattern)


Q: Which is better. Well, having a hub centric ring is a definite plus. It will keep your wheels centered and is your best bet to combat wheel vibration. Granted this is if you have properly balanced wheels and that is not the crux of your problem.

Q: So does that mean if I use lug centric wheels my car will vibrate uncontrollably and cause me to crash on the highway into an exploding nuclear failure. No, it doesnt. What it means is that you must take greater care when properly installing your wheels. Start with the top lug nut and begin to tighten it, then skip one and begin to tighten that one, keep doing this and you will cover all 5. Now repeat this pattern over and over again until you have reached the spec torque rating.

Cool, now that I finally have a proper grasp of what the difference is I can ask a solid question.

Q: I want to buy aftermarket wheels but it doesn't say anything about coming with hub centric rings. Well, most wheels wont come with rings. This is because the manufacturer uses a larger center bore to allow the wheel to bolt to as many cars as possible. These wheels will for the most part have conical seating lug nuts. If you get out your handy ruler you can measure the center bore of your new wheels and order a hub centric ring if you so desire. Again, your car will not implode on itself just because you do not go and buy a plastic ring for your hub.

With that I must make this statement. Depending on what cheap wheel manufacturer you chose, will effect quality. Some of your cheap off the wall brands, much like the cheap ebay knock off adjustable coil sleeves are not made very well. This means your mounting holes may not be properly drilled and centered for 5x100 or whatever stud pattern you ordered. By just running lug centric lug nuts you will have vibration at higher speeds. You can remedy this buy purchasing hub rings, this will help to center them since the wheel was not drilled properly.


Q: I saw a picture of a car with stripped out studs and everyone keeps saying its because he wasn't running a hub centric ring. Yes, there are a couple pictures floating that people claim it happened because of no hub centric rings. Studs are stripped because they are over torqued or not installed properly. Remember, you car studs have a foot pound limit on what they are set to hold. When you crank that sucker down to 140 ftlbs you not only plan on warping your rotor but you can easily strip out your studs.

Now, if you for some reason install a set of wheels and they wobble like crazy all the way down the road. Get hub centric rings, because they obviously are not drilled properly. Last thing you want to do is completely ruin your studs, wheels and anything else that may slide across the ground when your wheels come off.



So what are the lessons to be learned with this:
1: Don't buy cheap ass ebay knock off wheels.
2: If the wheel is not drilled for conical lug nuts you need hub centric rings to center your wheel.
3: If in doubt, run a hub centric ring with conical lug nuts if you feel you can not properly install a lug centric wheel.
4: Properly tighten your wheels while they are OFF the ground. Do Not do the last few tightenings once the wheel is on the ground. When running a lug centric wheel you have now tightened it off center.


Adapters/Spacers

Spacers are made from 1mm all the way up to "how fast you want to destroy your bearings". By this I mean I have seen 8in spacers, which is a joke but was a cheap way to wide body a narrow horrid offset wheel.

So, spacers end up give you a few options as they become wider. Either use longer studs or with 20mm+ spacers you bolt the spacer to your hub then bolt your wheel to the spacer studs.

Adapters are used to change your stud pattern. 5x100 to 5x114 would be the most common change for celica owners. Most companies will not make an adapter smaller than 20mm with a stud change. This is for safety reasons, which means if you are changing stud patterns and have the wheel already you need to account what the offset is to begin with, then subtract the adapter width.

With adapters, some companies will make the adapter hub centric and then your wheel will mount lug centric. Others for a higher cost will make a 2 piece adapter which will be hub centric on both ends. Take a look at the wheels you plan on using and decide which version you need.


Example for using an adapter. We have +48 offset 5x114 wheel that is 17x8 that we want to use. By using the flush numbers given we know we need et+22 in the front and et+5 in the rear. So, 48-25mm (1inch) adapter = et+23. This is as close as we will get to this number. (Most adapter companies have set widths (20mm, 25mm, 30mm etc, if you can find custom to make exactly what offset you need even better.) For the rear we need a 43mm adapter. So we may have a choice of 40mm or 45mm. Best bet would be 40mm spacer.


qatar11
+1
playr158
info looks good, should help someone go VIP laugh.gif
RoyO
QUOTE (95CelicaST @ Oct 7, 2009 - 5:55 AM) *
Vote for sticky

+1 !!
Harold_Fastwaker
QUOTE (playr158 @ Oct 7, 2009 - 9:44 AM) *
info looks good, should help someone go VIP laugh.gif



Well I am waiting for someone else to come join my flushness ranks. Sunk wheels look like ass, even more so when they are 7in wide.
95CelicaST
Give me until spring and I'll be there. Got to save up for the coilovers so I can put them all on at once.
808celica
i ****en love your sig fastwaker laugh.gif wanna make me one??? great info thumbsup.gif i got 5mm spacers waiting biggrin.gif gotta use a die cutter to cut my fenders.
freddy121389
I vote sticky as well
Sinyk
Good info, but I'm just not a fan of the stretched tire look.
Harold_Fastwaker
QUOTE (95CelicaST @ Oct 7, 2009 - 2:21 PM) *
Give me until spring and I'll be there. Got to save up for the coilovers so I can put them all on at once.



I know you will be next. I need to do a reshoot of my car once I have the megans installed.




QUOTE (Sinyk @ Oct 7, 2009 - 3:19 PM) *
Good info, but I'm just not a fan of the stretched tire look.



You can run flush without stretched tires. You just cant run your car as low, or you need to pull your fenders out.
trdproven
this is based on our 6gc specifically?
Harold_Fastwaker
QUOTE (trdproven @ Oct 7, 2009 - 5:35 PM) *
this is based on our 6gc specifically?



Yes. Specifically done on my car and I back logged the numbers to adjust for other widths.

The 8.5 front and 9.5 rear is exactly what I am running right now.
richee3
QUOTE (Harold_Fastwaker @ Oct 7, 2009 - 1:05 PM) *
... Sunk wheels look like ass, even more so when they are 7in wide.


That they do. +1 for the stickies.
SoundSlut_dotcom
i know this is annoying... but.. im about to order these rims.. so this is right before i buy these i just want to ask one last time.....

18x8 5x100/114.3 25
18x8 5x100/114.3 25
18x8 5x100/114.3 25

^^ WILL THESE FIT w/ no mod/no rubbing ... ps: also on airbags..

thnx

QUOTE (SoundSlut_dotcom @ Oct 12, 2009 - 10:21 AM) *
i know this is annoying... but.. im about to order these rims.. so this is right before i buy these i just want to ask one last time.....

18x8 5x100/114.3 25
18x8 5x100/114.3 25
18x8 5x100/114.3 25

^^ WILL THESE FIT w/ no mod/no rubbing ... ps: also on airbags..

thnx



that 25 is the offset
95CelicaST
You'll be golden, but how much bigger are your airbags than the standard strut?
SoundSlut_dotcom
ill be honest i have no clue, maybe about an inch inch and a half all around ?
95CelicaST
What is your current setup? Wheel width and offset?
SoundSlut_dotcom
17 x 7.5 sunk in like crazy.. im guessin a +45 ?
95CelicaST
Based on my math, you'll actually gain a bit over a half inch of strut clearance going from 7.5" +45 to 8" +25. So inner clearance won't be a problem, but you're going to extend an inch out towards the fender, so stick a ruler on your rim and measure out an inch - and that's going to tell you how close your rim will be to the fender.
Harold_Fastwaker
QUOTE (SoundSlut_dotcom @ Oct 12, 2009 - 12:21 PM) *
i know this is annoying... but.. im about to order these rims.. so this is right before i buy these i just want to ask one last time.....

18x8 5x100/114.3 25
18x8 5x100/114.3 25
18x8 5x100/114.3 25

^^ WILL THESE FIT w/ no mod/no rubbing ... ps: also on airbags..

thnx



Not annoying at all. Hence why I made this thread to help out people who want proper fitting wheels.


QUOTE (95CelicaST @ Oct 12, 2009 - 3:04 PM) *
Based on my math, you'll actually gain a bit over a half inch of strut clearance going from 7.5" +45 to 8" +25. So inner clearance won't be a problem, but you're going to extend an inch out towards the fender, so stick a ruler on your rim and measure out an inch - and that's going to tell you how close your rim will be to the fender.




As stated, you will have 14mm more inner clearance than you have now and will bump out 26mm (1.1 inch). Since your wheels clear now they will not have a problem at all with the new wheels. Even if your wheels now are +40 you will gain 9mm more clearance on the inner and push out 21mm.
Harold_Fastwaker



An example.
nintyfourcelicaman
maybe this is a dumb question with a simple answer...but what is a stretched tire??? and if i have a set of 114.3 wheels and don't know the offet....how do i measure to know???? i know that i will need to buy wheel adapters....but i am looking for that flush wheel look...and will maybe need camber bolts for the rear and roll my rear fenders too... Thanks for your help in advance.
808celica
114.3 pattern wont fit our cars. stretched tire is just a smaller tire being fitted on a wider rim.
Harold_Fastwaker
Look on the inside of your wheel. Somewhere it will have stamped the size, width and offset. Most likely on one of the spokes.

As stated with 114.3 which I believe is also 5x4.5 you need an adapter to change lug patterns. Minimum adapter width for this would be 20mm which is a bit under 1 inch. However, with celica studs you need 25mm to clear it. So calculate that into your offset.


Stretched tires are just like they sound. You take a narrower tire and make it fit some thing wider. For instance, you take a 7.5 width tire and mount it to a 9.5 wide wheel.
808celica
just something i keep forgetting to post

http://fatlace.com/hellaflush/

Harold, you down??? laugh.gif
If I see your car on fatlace i'll get my car up there too wink.gif
Spider77
.....
Harold_Fastwaker
QUOTE (808celica @ Feb 8, 2010 - 3:21 AM) *
just something i keep forgetting to post

http://fatlace.com/hellaflush/

Harold, you down??? laugh.gif
If I see your car on fatlace i'll get my car up there too wink.gif



I was going to submit my car once my exhaust is finished and I am fully happy with my stance. So hopefully it will be on there shortly.
SwissFerdi
I'm sorry, but I just don't get this HellaFlush craze...Harold, your stance and wheel fitment is pretty much perfect (even though I know you'll disagree). All I see on that site is stretched tires, hella camber, and just generally cars that look like...ass. Seriously.
Harold_Fastwaker
QUOTE (SwissFerdi @ Feb 9, 2010 - 12:45 AM) *
I'm sorry, but I just don't get this HellaFlush craze...Harold, your stance and wheel fitment is pretty much perfect (even though I know you'll disagree). All I see on that site is stretched tires, hella camber, and just generally cars that look like...ass. Seriously.


laugh.gif Thanks for the complement. biggrin.gif It is just boredom for me. After I see it for a while I want to change it up, unfortunately I do not have the money to buy a new set of wheels so I am stuck tinkering with what I have.

The other problem is my megans have now been lowered to their max setting frown.gif I need a 35 or 40 series tire now if I want it to go lower.
SwissFerdi
QUOTE (Harold_Fastwaker @ Feb 9, 2010 - 12:12 PM) *
laugh.gif Thanks for the complement. biggrin.gif It is just boredom for me. After I see it for a while I want to change it up, unfortunately I do not have the money to buy a new set of wheels so I am stuck tinkering with what I have.

The other problem is my megans have now been lowered to their max setting frown.gif I need a 35 or 40 series tire now if I want it to go lower.


You're welcome, but I'm taking that back unless you show up to the meet. Screw lacrosse.

I can imagine that though, even I get a little bored unless I do something new (and I've done relatively little).
nintyfourcelicaman
okay so i decided not to go with 19" rims and found a great deal on some 18" x 8 1/2" Enkei EV5 wheels with what i believe is a 35 offset (stamp is on the inside of the hub, a 35 inside a circle)...what will i need for a flush look? will i need spacers and what tires should i get? my car is lowered...THANKS in advanced.
95CelicaST
You'll need an 8mm spacer up front to bring the front offset to +27 and a 25mm spacer in the rear to bring the rear offset to +10.
Harold_Fastwaker
QUOTE (95CelicaST @ Mar 4, 2010 - 2:39 PM) *
You'll need an 8mm spacer up front to bring the front offset to +27 and a 25mm spacer in the rear to bring the rear offset to +10.



Well his PM to me said the wheels are 114 and 120. So he needs an adapter and min spacer for that is 25mm. So he is going to poke a bit up front, nothing -camber cant fix.
95CelicaST
That is going to be a LOT of poke up front, camber would need to be -4
nintyfourcelicaman
I can buy 20mm adapters for the front....that would take me to +15... i think you said above that i need et+27 for the fronts...Hmm...what number do i need to get to? can anyone tell me how i install camber and where i can buy them please? thank you.
Harold_Fastwaker
QUOTE (95CelicaST @ Mar 4, 2010 - 3:31 PM) *
That is going to be a LOT of poke up front, camber would need to be -4



biggrin.gif That is where I am headed right now. Ordering new front spacers to get me some poke. My rears are perfect, but negative camber up front leaves my wheels looking sunken.
95CelicaST
QUOTE (nintyfourcelicaman @ Mar 4, 2010 - 12:50 PM) *
I can buy 20mm adapters for the front....that would take me to +15... i think you said above that i need et+27 for the fronts...Hmm...what number do i need to get to? can anyone tell me how i install camber and where i can buy them please? thank you.


Flush is +27. With a 20mm lug adapter on the front you'll be 12mm PAST flush. Either you'll need to run stretched tires on the front or some SERIOUS camber. Those wheels will sit 1/2" outside of your fender with that configuration.


nintyfourcelicaman
ok...so if i am running 1/2 inch past the stock fender...but i have fiberglass billlit fenders....i wonder if they are wider than stock??? also how do i buy camber kits?? Thanks for all the help and advice so far...i'm trying to figure this all out as we go along!! biggrin.gif
95CelicaST
With fiberglass fenders you're going to need to worry about the wheels hitting and cracking them. I would highly suggest going back to OEM and then roll the fender lip flat.


Look for Eibach's camber kit. They'll do what you need.
nintyfourcelicaman
thank you for the link and the advice!!! i will let you know how i make out with it all.... i really do appriciate it! thanks again
Goonter
k i'm planning on using spacers/adapters. but have a few questions before a go ahead and do it. safety-wise, which one is better. 15 mm spacers with extended studs, or a 25 mm Bolt-on Adapter? and how fast will each setting eat up my wheel bearing frown.gif?
Harold_Fastwaker
both eat up your bearings at the same rate. It will depend on your final offset to give you an overall amount. Not like we can tell you an exact time frame they will last anyway. All depends on your mileage to begin with.


I dunno which is better between bolt on or studs. I wouldnt trust 15mm with extended studs though, but I bet science can prove me wrong. I just think anything over 10 needs to be bolted on.
Goonter
arg .. i see thanks for the response. guess ill try out 25mm bolt-ons on rear and 10 mm extended stud in the front. anywho. how much would it be for new wheel bearings each?.. just so i know how much i would be spending in case they DO give out
Harold_Fastwaker
QUOTE (Goonter @ Mar 13, 2010 - 12:21 AM) *
arg .. i see thanks for the response. guess ill try out 25mm bolt-ons on rear and 10 mm extended stud in the front. anywho. how much would it be for new wheel bearings each?.. just so i know how much i would be spending in case they DO give out



go to RockAuto.com and look them up. They give you a pretty solid price, they will be comparable if you go to Autozone or Advance Auto as well.
Goonter
thanks smile.gif
whatthe
Throwing my 17x8 +35 with 225/45/17 this week back on. With a set of these 25mm 56mm bore hub centric spacers effectively making the rear +10. I probably wont be able to run these straight up as it will rub with the rear lining and need to get it rolled somewhere. But im looking forward to it biggrin.gif

Driveby
Snap! (almost)
Just fitted 30mm H&R rear spacers and 10mm fronts on the same size wheel and tyre combo on my GT4.
No rubbing issues with my suspension set up, but I have camber bolts on the rear to improve my stance woot.gif
whatthe
Driveby how much negative camber are you running on the rear? You didnt have the roll guards? From what i remember with my 17x8 on it was cutting close the the lining without spacers.
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