Started test fitting the GT-4 bits in the rear... after talking to Steve I was curious how the rear end lined up between the chassis codes... sub question: did the chassis mount for the trailing arm move between the ST204 and ST205.

I used some wire and a camera platform to locate the camera in the same spot for some before and after shots:









So it looks like we are good here!!

Also note the APEXI lowering springs



Wait.... you are still alive?!

Lookin good

That's a pretty cool camera set up

lookin good mikey!
diggin the cam setup!

nice work! so the rear shocks are pretty much the same between the US GT and GT4?

Well... it certainly looks the same... but the part numbers for all the bits (Shock / Spring / etc) are all unique to the ST205... so I am guessing that the spring rate / shock performance are specifically tuned.

cool thanks.

I had pretty much the same plan as you, probably have to make my own subframe mount.

Progress comes slowly....

Are you missing the top part of the bushings? Only reason I noticed was because one of mine has the rubber completely ripped off.

#4 in the link

Toyota Parts

I think I have all the bits... just not on the subframe at the moment.

Weather has been sick in MI the past two weeks... so progress has been made:




I have a problem with fitment at the moment... the propeller / drive shaft is going past the connection point to the rear diff as if the rear diff is about 1/2" too far forward... not sure what to make of it yet...






Obligatory spare tire space delete upgrade (adds lightness)



I thought maybe the spare tire sheetmetal was getting in the way but that was not the culprit...

I swear I'm not stalking your thread

But I got a tip from czwalga that if you use the gt4 arms, it moves the subframe up 1/2".

Try the GT arms?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqQ99s4Ywnw

Lol love the vid hahahahah... Keep up the good work

As hinted by Malek (What is your name, anyway?) Steve (czwalga) had a similar problem with fitment. Between making his own drive shaft mounts and using the GT trailing arms which are longer, he is able to make it all fit. I have reached out to a few local shops that can shorten the drive shaft a scoush. Hopefully I can get some precise measurements over the weekend and get that going on Monday.

FYI I did not use GT trailing arms. I did use the GT4 arms.



My suggestion is unbolt the driveshaft. Just get the first part that goes into the transmission and take a rubber mallet and see if you can pound it in any further.

My name is actually Malek
If pounding the small end doesn't work, you weren't planning on cutting the center and having it rewelded were you? I'm not sure if there many more options but I really don't want to do that on mine haha

Whelp... there is more room that the drive shaft can go into the trans, ~ 17 mm or so... and that's with the slots on the mount fully consumed... However I think that is by design so you can remove this part of the drive shaft without disrupting the entire drive line for Trans work, etc....




However, I cannot buy that I missed locating the drive shaft mounts that much - especially since they are formed to the sheet metal of the car - they just would not have laid down well enough to weld in the wrong location.


So as my old middle school wood shop teacher used to say, "Measure twice and cut once" - I put the wheel on to see how it looked in the wheel well and... all I can say is no mi gusta:



I think I am going to back away from the drive shaft shortening idea and return to the trailing arm length conspiracy theories - I, of course, busted the bolt trying to harvest my GT ones so I think its a trip to car-parts.com.

I wouldn't wish working on a 15+ year old midwestern car on my worstest of enemies (Ya that's right - worstest)

Mike,

Keep in mind that there is 3 unibody sections. Front is the same between GT4/GT. The middle and rear sections of the unibody are not the same, so where you welded the mounts may not be the same location on the gt4, even if it did seem to fit into place.

Its says in the specs for the GT4 that the european models have a 5mm longer wheelbase - http://gtfours.co.uk/stuff/facts/205/facts.htm

This is true... but what is forcing the rear subfram so far forward is the trailing arms.. and I think that is just the fact that, as you said, the unibody in the back is not the same. I am going to try to get some GT arms and see what that does for the position. I am also entertaining the idea of using turnbuckles here.



This is interesting but I think i need to move the subframe back inches... not millimeters.... but you'd be surprised how much a few mm maters


Also... its absolutely criminal that these are buried under the intercooler

Before you spring into GT arms, let me compare mine. I have both the GT and GT4 arms. I'll see how much of a difference there is.

Idk about you, but I hate buying something when it ends up not working haha

You're complaining about the spark plugs under the intercooler? Don't ever get a Subaru

I've done the measurement between the GT4 and GT trailing arms. Remember to measure hole to hole, not the length of the arm itself. I think the arm lengths are similar, but the holes are in slightly different locations. It's been a while so I cant remember.


The CV joint can move in and out a little, so that can account for some of the slop. You really dont need much to seperate it. 1/4" at most. In all of my rwd cars, the driveshaft fits pretty damn tight with the rear differential. Kinda similar in this case as well after I made the mounts.

You really want to slide the driveshaft over the tailshaft of the transmission as much as possible as there's more spline engagement. Although we're talking relatively low HP here so it probably will be near the bottom of the list of things to fail.

You know what is a concern of mine right now is the wheel location in the wheel well - it is well forward... I took the spring off so i could compress the strut and see where the wheel lands at a more realistic height. If the wheel lands in a good spot - I can maybe elongate the center drive shaft mount holes and just eat up some of the difference in the trans....

What the hell is the point of a gasket overhaul kit if you do not include all the gaskets?! ZOMGWTFBBQCHUCKNORRIS
...
<pulls hair out>
...
<orders **** from England>
...

I have been looking at the diff with st202 vs st205 to make AWD ,

i seen u have the rear clip as well!

Did u change frame rails in the rear ? as well did it come with gas tank?

I think the frame rails in the rear need to be change to line up your rear sub-frame

All will be answered soon!

GT4 gas tank is useless for a st202.

really ! so what did u have to use ?

could you not drill out trunk floor and use that with the frame rail ? would equal a factory like swap ?
or is the body diff as well in the middle ?

when u change yours to AWD did u just cut car and weld ? from roof to rear bumper ?

I cut the spare tire well out and it still fit like ****... The entire floor of the ST202 is lower, not to mention the fact that the filler tube would have to be some kind of custom setup. Much cheaper to just make your own.


I have a FIA fuel cell, which is pricey, but only because its required for rally. You could do a cheap fuel cell setup built to specifications that fit the space you're working with. Without replacing the back 2/3rds of the shell nothing you could do to make it a factory swap. Somethings are going to have to custom. There's different options on how to get there, but nothing will be like factory.

good to know !

so getting a rear clip is not the best pick to go AWD ?

what about the rear sub frame to line your's did you drill new holes

The clip may help just cause you have more in case you decide to do something different. All i had was all the critical mechanical parts, made everything else.


The car isn't like legos, whatever you decide its going to take some custom fab.

yea i was just hopping toyota didn't change the frame that much i could do it more like factory , but the info is good !!
I don't mine doing custom work, but is more now $$

Looking good so far, hope you get it all worked out!

As for celica95-95, you live in toronto...why didn't you just buy a GT4?

dont what RHD

I feel like a LHD swap would be much easier than an AWD swap

yea was thinking thats as well

still work either way

You forgot the VIN swap.. which, I think, is a Federal offense

Sew.... As I sort out the adjustable length trailing rods and I wait for a gasket from the UK, I turn to the steering rack:







Today I learned that the ST204 steering rack (at least the USDM one) is significantly smaller then its ST205 (JDM) counterpart. So the immediate options that spring to mind are longer inner tie rods from God-Knows-Where or a LHD ST205 steering rack... which should be a little like hunting for a unicorn...



I shoulda bought a STi


Also, I found out my spare GT steering rack (pictured) is all jacked up (see input from steering wheel) - so thanks a lot to the jack-hole I bought it from on here (whose name escapes me)

I wonder if I can just flip it around....

Mounting is different between Kframe for RHD and LHD steering racks.
For my RHD conversion i used RHD K frame, RHD rack and pinion, mcpherson inner and outter tie rods
and flipping it won't work cause the column to rack mount is offset on the system.

are you staying LHD and using SS suspension?
I would just keep the mcpherson stuff.....sooooo much easier

What do you mean "mounting is different" ?

Are you saying the rack is not centered on the subframe?

Also - I am staying LHD and SS Suspension because I have some nice suspension bits I want to use...

Mike are you guys doing Lemons at hyperfest in WV? next weekend? Still debating if i'm going down or not.

awesome build up man! im enjoying the pics

a rhd subframe has different mounting points for steering rack.

Nah - the Lemons car is under a tarp until the GT-FOUR is done. Race car will be re-started over the weekend - the cage rules have matured and on top of the blown engine I have to update the cage.

Bonzai -

This is not true according to the EPC

51201-20310

02/1994-07/1995 ST205L-BLMVZW TBO4W, EUR, LB, LHD, 3SGTE, MTM 51-02
02/1994-07/1995 ST205R-BLMVZW TBO4W, EUR, LB, RHD, 3SGTE, MTM 51-02


I did, however, confirm that the Cross Member Sub Assembly is different between the ST204 and the ST205 - most notably where the steering rack is mounted... which might explain all the pain getting the AWD trans into my car... Seeeew At the risk of changing the angle in which the rack and tie-rods operate, I think the working plan will be to flip the steering rack around / find a LHD GT-FOUR steering rack.

flipping the steering rack doesn't work - the input to the rack points the wrong way - obviously... So it looks like I have 3 options remaining...

Buy a LHD steering rack from Toyota new (price coming)
Find inner tie rods that are a little longer than SS inner tie rods
Ditch the SS suspension

Ditching the SS suspension is fine... except now I don't have off the shelf solutions for suspension and I have to figure out how to mount the calipers...

why not use sleeves like old celicas do...

Maybe? Will have to look into it.

She's cleans up nice...






PSA of the day:

When using compressed air to removed seized caliper pistons, do not point the caliper towards your car window. Luckily it bounced off some other soft metals before making it to the windshield... all is well. So i plug the holes with some cork gasket and I (after the first 2) fire the piston into a cardboard box - which flies across the garage... Good stuff...



WRT: the rack. After lots and lots and lots of internet research - it turns out the refurb people in Europe have the same internal part number for the ST18X as the ST205... Soooo I have one of those coming (should be here tomorrow) Fingers crossed..