6G Celicas Forums

Well then you win. Lol. I'd love to make a cold air box but I've got other things to take care of first. Who knows, my Greytop might go to good use after all. I'm praying the new MAF fixes it but if not, I'm going to have to start looking into a new fuel pump.




My Greytop came from a Rav4/Caldina but the Redtop is from a Celica. Don't bother with a BEAMS from an MR2 or else you'll spend more money on the motor from the start and you'll have to do a decent amount of work to fit it to a Celica. The link
you posted will work and the swap is exactly the same for a '94 GT, as long as it's a manual. 3 hours? I didn't know I had 3 hours of material here. Lol.




I wish I could have done the same but the deal on this Redtop was too good to pass up. Mostly.





I'd like to get the same setup that Forgmann just sold- BEAMS gauge with a regular 3S-GE black face. Who knows, we might go for the same setup as everyone else, with the white BEAMS tach and fuel/temp gauges. The Dakota Digital tach adapter works. It's cheap and accurate. But the needle twitches once in a while. It's annoying. I might switch the the MSD tach adapter soon. In the meantime, it's pretty wild to drive that needle into the redline and let it keep going. Sometimes I look down and forget the true redline and I'll shift too early.




In a nutshell, it doesn't. I feel like I've lost some low end power compared to the other intake. Top end feels better but that could just be because the low end doesn't feel like it's pulling as hard. Like I said, until I see dyno results proving that the SARD is better than the OEM intake, I'm going to assume it's sucking too much hot air to be any good. A cold air box like Rusty's might all the difference in the world though.


Like nothing ever changed.

This post has been edited by richee3: Aug 22, 2011 - 1:35 PM

Today...



It went to a good home. Thanks, Trace

Trace helped pull the motor from the red Celica. There's a rather large hole in the back of the auto tranny.



So my progress thread is more or less finished, apart from figuring out why the BEAMS bogs down. And most of my posts there are on the BEAMS Owner's Group, and most of my progress is still going uncharted. It's all dull stuff. Buy this, touch that, break something else. The usual. Coming in Spring 2012, Greytop BEAMS swap! That'll likely just be a picture update and the actual progress will be in a different thread.

I'm appreciating the shout outs on multiple threads lol. Thanks again man

Replaced the fuel pump in the BEAMS today, suspecting that an old, tired pump was the issue with my bogging. I got a virtually brand new Squallbro 255 from Stevenson (Thanks again, Stevenson!) and sure enough, the problem is still there. I forgot I had a cheap air/fuel ratio gauge until today, so I hooked it up just to see what's going on with the motor. I already know, as well as anyone unfortunate enough to get behind me, that the car is running crazy rich. You can smell it pretty clearly. But I was curious how rich so I hooked the gauge up anyway.

Stealthgauge!



It won't be in the car long. Just long enough to let me know what's going on. Pretty sure it won't do that though. When I start the car, it reads stoich. As soon as I rev it up, it goes straight to rich and stays there. Either the motor actually is running too rich for the gauge to measure or the gauge just sucks. Both are likely. Either way, I'm tired of chasing down bugs with this swap. We're going to start looking into a new motor soon.

Dan, the problem is electrical/air related I feel, let me explain. If you can GRADUALLY rev the engine up to 6-7000, but can't do it when the throttle is at full, the computer has to be telling the injectors to open wide. meaning that it believes the air flow is much higher than it is. So we need to look into finding out what sends that signal to the computer. You've already replaced the MAF with a brand new one(as i understand). So we can eliminate that. And because a slow rev means its fine and a fast one causes problems, we must consider the "sudden" jolt of air requirements to play some role. It just feels like vacuum to me. Check your hoses, make sure one doesn't have a slit in it that a sudden vacuum surge would cause it draw air through etc. I mean I know you've been pretty thorough, but it has to be something easy. This site (although a diff car, may be of some assistance) http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/PICS/hesitation/hesitation.html - it can't be that difficult. It just smells like an electrical signal to the ecu that has origins in air flow/pressure that somehow is related to a VERY specific rpm. A motorcycle for instance has very different fuel characteristics in the carb above say 2000... this is probably something similar. I'm gonna keep thinking about it, because it probably isn't worth finding a new motor.

did you test fuel pressure after you installed the new pump. I'm sure u already know this but asking, just incase you forgot. Maybe the regulator is messed up? how low does the air/fuel ratio read. The aem reads from 8.0-17.0 ratio

Nope, sure didn't. Lol. Tomorrow I'm going to clean the ISCV, mostly for the sake of having it cleaned, but partially because Puretone from the BEAMS Owners Group has suggested it a few times. I don't have a fuel pressure gauge to check the fuel pressure with. I need to check/clean the FPR as well but I doubt if it's a problem. It seems strange to me that the FPR would give me problems at 3k but not 7k, so I doubt if the engine is being starved for fuel. Right now I think it's something wrong with the VVTi. Whether the solenoid is plugged in or not, there's always a 'kick' right above 3G then the car runs fine after that. The a/f gauge I hooked up earlier is a piece if junk but it's telling me some of the right information, anyway. After a certain point in acceleration, whether I floor it or get into a higher gear, the motor starts running way rich. It won't lean out again until it idles for a bit. As far as actual air/fuel ratios, I have no idea what I'm running. It's just a narrowband gauge that only tells me if I'm lean, stoich, or rich. To be honest, the problem seems to be associated with load. More load, dump fuel into the cylinders, run crazy rich, bog. And then if I downshift and force the motor to hit 4 or 5k, it runs fine again.

try swapping throttle bodies with the other 3sge you have, to narrow out something as simple as the TPS. i suggest swaping the whole TB to keep from having to adjust that sensor..

^not a bad idea.
x2

TPS on the Redtop came broken in half. Swapped the one from the Greytop over since they're the same. I've unplugged the TPS to rule it out. I lost throttle response but the motor still bogged down. That ruled the TPS out. The O2 sensor is closed loop and only monitors how the engine runs, never affects it. That's out. New MAF, that's out. VVT solenoid replaced, that's out. New fuel pump. All that's left is the ISCV, which is possible but isn't likely, VVT filter (eff changing that- I'll buy a new motor first), a problem with the VVT itself (very possible and seeming more likely), FPR (doesn't seem likely- why would the motor choke at 3k but thrive at 7k?), and whatever else that I can't think of right now. Before I even got this BEAMS going, Brigette and I had talked about going 3S-GTE. So unless this motor turns around and shows exactly what's wrong, we're probably doing another swap this winter.

Edit: not throwing any codes, by the way. As far as the ECU is concerned, everything is hunky dory. I even cracked the ECU open last weekend to see if the problem was the ECU itself but it all looked good. Just a green board with a lot of resistors and some black boxes. No burns, cracks, chips, anything.

This post has been edited by richee3: Sep 3, 2011 - 9:41 PM

if it was a weak fpr that was letting too much fuel go by, it wouldn't solve itself by downshifting and forcing the motor past 3000k. I agree, i don't think it's fuel delivery related, at least not something mechanically wrong. I've been looking at info on the 1zz-fe motor because it is more common and likely information is more easily found... but it's been tough so far. may be able to get a better idea what's happening with yours by comparing problems to that one.

is there any relation to what deluzions says here http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...mp;#entry798811 and maybe something you might be experiencing? just trying to help trouble shoot.

Edit: here's a 1zz with some advice from another guy http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/archive/...hp/t-53234.html
edit 2: similar problem, bottom says check tps etc. worth the read: http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/archive/...hp/t-54564.html -
also, but not as likely.. http://www.mr2.com/forums/turbo-engine-tal...er-3000rpm.html

EDIT#3 - maybe the winner - http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.ph...301&start=0 notice the post by blood money. Check timing, but more importantly look at the solution. I know you aren't boosted, but the problem is still very similar... turns out it WAS vacuum GL

EDIT4 - just a thought here too http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=40032&page=2 - They were talking about the STA wire being the problem. - last post with solution

This post has been edited by ricochet1490: Sep 3, 2011 - 11:16 PM

you'll hear vvt-i smoothly turn over at about 4 and a half thousand rpms. At idle I'm getting 13-13.5 air/fuel ratio reading for the first 20 seconds while the car is warming up. Man what a pain in the arse your motor is being. Sucks to see all the R&D time being put into your swap in order to get it running correctly. seems your about ready to give up on this motor and say next.

Thanks Trace, but none of those quite match my problem 100%. The closest thing I can find is this.

http://www.boostcruising.com/forums/index....howtopic=443737 Difference is mine happens around 3k and his is at 5k. My best moves right now seem to be getting ahold of a fuel pressure gauge and getting a wideband to find out exactly what this motor is doing. It doesn't make sense to me that the motor would choke at 3k but rev fine at 7k, but his Blacktop did the same. So I'll check that as soon as I get a fuel pressure gauge.

Bonzai- The motor isn't being as much of a pain as my thread makes it sound. We've got over 2,000 miles on the swap now and it's running fine for the most part. The issue is that once you get it started bogging, it wants to keep doing it. But if you never get it started, it runs just fine. But you're right, I'm running out of things to check/fix/replace so I'm getting closer to pulling it out, parting/selling it, and getting a different engine. The goal is to end up with a GT4 front end down the road, and Brigette wants to consider a 3S-GTE anyway. Makes sense to get a clip, right? The thing is, when this motor runs, it runs great and we can't see any reason to get rid of it. It's so clean. There's no sludge in the valve cover, so carbon to burn off when I ran Seafoam through it. So I feel like it's machanically a good engine. I just can't figure out why it's behaving oddly.

33.9 mpg today.

on my daily it suddenly started running like ****, bogging & misfiring. was the coolant temp sensor. might look into that

im thinking there must be a short somewhere, or the ecu is bad. once it starts running or maybe the fuel is dirty, run lucas for the injectors.

Stephen, that's possible, but I've always just assumed the coolant temp sensor did nothing more than sense the coolant temp. My gauge seems to be working just fine so I've also assumed that I don't have a problem with the coolant temp sensor. You know what happens when you assume though..

Here's another possibility. Grounds. I have upgraded the ground on the tranny to 8 gauge wire since I did a battery relocation. I'll upgrade the other grounds as well, see if that changes anything. Again, I doubt if it'll make a difference, but I already have the wire, so why not try? I still haven't put my hands on a fuel pressure gauge. celi_wabbit posted some cheap projectors and... yeah. Once again, just like the start of this thread, I bought something that looks good rather than makes the car move. I'll get the fuel pressure gauge later this week. Until then, more piddling around and not really accomplishing anything.

Noberto- I keep wanting to pull the motor and check all of the wiring, I just don't really want to pull the motor. I cracked the ECU open and didn't see anything wrong, but that doesn't mean that something isn't wrong with it. I've run several tanks of gas through it now, so I know it isn't dirty fuel. I've ran some Lucas through it, no change.

This post has been edited by richee3: Sep 6, 2011 - 8:50 PM

there are multiple coolant temp sensors. one for the ECU, one for your gauge, and one for the fans. the ecu is a 2 pin on the coolant neck.

the ecu coolant temp sensor determines things like: air/fuel ratio(warm up enrichment), ignition timing, ac operation, idle speed... and others i dont know of im sure.

but its just a thought as you have went over all the major things already. its bound to be some small sensor or something somewhere

stephen's right, i woulnd have never thought of it, but on my car the coolant temp went out for both cluster and the ecu. i have the hardest starts and sometimes it likes to loose power and chug, i might be something to look into.