Updated: I Need Strut Help! Options

[Coomer]

I'm trying to figure out which inserts I need to get in order to obtain optimum results by running shortened struts in the front, and I have a few questions.

1. Does anyone know the stroke range for factory shocks on the front of our Celicas?

2. And also, does anyone know the stroke range for other MacPherson-strut-equipped Toyota cars such as the AW11, SW20, AE92, and AE86?

3. What's the inner-diameter of our stock strut housings?

Punch's thread is very helpful but I'm looking for just a bit more information.

Thanks,
Christian Coomer

This post has been edited by Coomer: Mar 31, 2006 - 12:10 PM

[Kwanza26]

although I don't have measurements... I would venture a guess the inserts are of the same diameter. I've looked into possibly doing this, but no longer really feel a need to mod my Celica... so it's just an idea for me... but I'm gonna assume punch has it set-up and the diameters of the inserts are the same.

As for the stroke length, the stroke length depends on the shock. The amount you cut off on the casing depends on the shock. In the AE86's case, the MR2 insert, which is a cheap and easy choice, is shorter than the AE86 casing, so people either add a spacer at the bottom, or simply cut the casing. This is done simply so the shock can be properly installed and secured. However, depending on what you do (add a spacer or cut the casing), you'll have to do mods to the actual spring set-up. If you add a casing, you can use the stock perch and run either lowering springs or any type of drop-in coilovers. However, if you cut the casing... this lowers the position of the perch, which can adversely affect the gemometry of the suspension. In this case... people have gone the whole way and removed the perch, and actually weld on adjustable coilovers. Of course measurements are done so they are in the proper position and allow proper height... but yeah. You get the idea.

[Coomer]

Thanks for the reply Kwanza. What I plan to do is run a shorter shock and cut the casing(above the perch so it won't affect the perch position) approximately 40mm. Then, if I need a spacer, I'll use one.

I just read that a lot of the AE86 guys run SW20 MR2 front shocks in the front and early 90s Camaro shocks in the rear.

Would you advise using the MR2 fronts on the front and MR2 rears on the rear, even though the MR2's weight distribution is way different than our Celicas?

[Kwanza26]

Thanks for the reply Kwanza. What I plan to do is run a shorter shock and cut the casing(above the perch so it won't affect the perch position) approximately 40mm. Then, if I need a spacer, I'll use one.

I just read that a lot of the AE86 guys run SW20 MR2 front shocks in the front and early 90s Camaro shocks in the rear.

Would you advise using the MR2 fronts on the front and MR2 rears on the rear, even though the MR2's weight distribution is way different than our Celicas?

No... i posted before I think emphasizing MR2 rears for the Celica fronts... and MR2 fronts for the Celica rears. Even on AE86's... although the MR2 fronts do fit... they've proven to blow after a while. I'd imagine the same on a Celica.

[Coomer]

Thanks for the reply Kwanza. What I plan to do is run a shorter shock and cut the casing(above the perch so it won't affect the perch position) approximately 40mm. Then, if I need a spacer, I'll use one.

I just read that a lot of the AE86 guys run SW20 MR2 front shocks in the front and early 90s Camaro shocks in the rear.

Would you advise using the MR2 fronts on the front and MR2 rears on the rear, even though the MR2's weight distribution is way different than our Celicas?

No... i posted before I think emphasizing MR2 rears for the Celica fronts... and MR2 fronts for the Celica rears. Even on AE86's... although the MR2 fronts do fit... they've proven to blow after a while. I'd imagine the same on a Celica.

They've proven to blow after a while when the MR2 fronts are used on the AE86 rear, or when the MR2 fronts are used on the AE86 front?

[Kwanza26]

They've proven to blow after a while when the MR2 fronts are used on the AE86 rear, or when the MR2 fronts are used on the AE86 front?

MR2 fronts on AE86 fronts.

[Coomer]

I'm so confused...I got my MR2 inserts today and they don't fit at all. The MR2 fronts alone stick out higher than factory Celica front insert, so they won't work. And the MR2 rears are even longer than the MR2 fronts.

But Punch claimed he shortened the strut assembly by 2" and still had to run spacers...I don't see how that's possible.

I double-checked part numbers and I indeed got MR2 inserts, so I have no clue what's going on.

Can anyone help me?

Edit: Pictures Added.


The four MR2 insert part numbers...which match up with those online at http://www.kyb.com


MR2 front and rear inserts side-by-side...the larger one on the bottom is the rear


AT200 strut assembly disassembled


AT200 insert and MR2 front AGX insert side-by-side


MR2 AGX front insert in AT200 front strut assembly...notice how it sticks out

This post has been edited by Coomer: Mar 28, 2006 - 8:58 PM

Attached image(s)

 

[Coomer]

Bump. Any help?

[WannabeGT4]

Bump.

Coomer, change your topic title so that people know what's going on.

The only thing I could come up with would be that you have an ST and Punch has a GT... Although I always thought the struts were the same between the two.

[Coomer]

I'd always read that they were the same as well...except the sport suspension on some GTs that use different fully-sealed strut assemblies could have a different length.

This thread has a bit of information, but I couldn't imagine Toyota changing the strut height by any sort of significant amount(What I got from Punch's thread and corresponding with him through PMs was that his strut assemblies were 4" taller, because he needed to use a 2" spacer and cut 2" off of the top of the strut assembly.)

Can someone with a sealed front GT strut assembly measure the height of the strut assembly for me?

[LewFX]

cant the top still go over the strut insert? it should be anough so it wont leak any fluid.

[Coomer]

cant the top still go over the strut insert? it should be anough so it wont leak any fluid.

It probably could...but then my suspension travel is reduced even more...and I'd be using struts designed to dampen a car with no engine in the front to dampen a car with an iron block engine in the front.

[LewFX]

im saying if the top nut can cover it without leaking there shouldnt be any problems, if your worried about it leaking then weld the nut over it. you cant top off sports struts since its pretty much stuck inside and capped over

[Coomer]

No, there is a problem. MR2 front struts aren't designed to dampen the fronts of Celicas, which have an engine in them. Therefore, they will most likely not last very long. Kwanza already posted in this thread regarding this.

Also, another problem is that suspension travel would be reduced. Although the amount of travel would be small, it's bad nonetheless. And the whole point of my project was to gain suspension travel.

And I'm not saying that I want sport-option struts...I'm wanting measurements of them and how they compare to regular struts. Perhaps the measurements are different, and that's why the MR2 inserts worked for Punch but won't work for me.

[Coomer]

TTE just confirmed that the sealed, non-serviceable struts are indeed the same length.

False information just costed me a few hundred dollars.

[WannabeGT4]

WTF? How did Punch make his work then?

[TTE]

TTE just confirmed that the sealed, non-serviceable struts are indeed the same length.

False information just costed me a few hundred dollars.

Sorry to hear that Christian, but may be there is someone that can refabricate and make them work with skills one has. But when I put down my inserts into the different housings they were at the same point where I was able to put cap over them.

This post has been edited by TTE: Apr 1, 2006 - 2:33 AM

[Kwanza26]

Well... there goes that short stroke theory. heheh... What I would do... is extend the casing. If you can weld... or know someone who can... it shouldn't be too hard. The problem now is the stroke length... which might be a bit tall... but I think it may be small enough that it shouldn't matter. Hmmm... sucks... cause I thought it *should* have worked. It can still work, cause it seems the shock does fit alright into the casing...

[Coomer]

Well... there goes that short stroke theory. heheh... What I would do... is extend the casing. If you can weld... or know someone who can... it shouldn't be too hard. The problem now is the stroke length... which might be a bit tall... but I think it may be small enough that it shouldn't matter. Hmmm... sucks... cause I thought it *should* have worked. It can still work, cause it seems the shock does fit alright into the casing...

Couldn't I just cut off the metal thing on the bottom of the AGX strut to get it to fit just about perfectly in there? And wouldn't you worry about MR2 front AGX inserts blowing in the front of a Celica?

[Kwanza26]

Couldn't I just cut off the metal thing on the bottom of the AGX strut to get it to fit just about perfectly in there? And wouldn't you worry about MR2 front AGX inserts blowing in the front of a Celica?

Sorry I couldn't get back sooner...

You could cut that piece off, depending on what it is... heh. If it's just a welded on space or something, then yeah... you can probably remove it and be ok. As for running the MR2 fronts... there's always possibility for blow-outs because the shock isn't designed for that sort of weight... but it'll more than likely be a gradual thing. Best advice I could give, try it and find out. I would venture they won't last as long as a shock designed for heavier load... but it should be OK... good luck... keep me posted.

[dans_st]

I don't mean to jack your post or anything but,

does anyone know a part# or where I can get a "AT200 front strut assembly" such as the one pictured? I have the strut inserts just not the assembly and cannot even move my car.

thanks for any help and sorry for interupting your thread
-Daniel