how to mod a 2.2L 96 celica? Options

[rstype23]

Hey everyone im new here.

im looking for suggestons on how to mod a 2.2L celica. from a 130hp to 200-240hp. any suggestions?

everything is stock and i would like to keep that car as N/A not turbo. and if it were to go to 200 - 240hp what other changes should be made to the car to have a great perfomance.

Thanks

[97celiman]

well i guess i'll be the first to tell you off for not looking at stickies and other threads, read around a bit, its dam near impossible to get 5s to run 200hp (to the ground) and still be NA. turbo is very possible. read the progress threads of presure2 among others that will give you plenty of info about the 5s

[rstype23]

oh...thank you. im new at this didnt know there were other threads similar to mine.

[_Jim_]

welcome to the site You will have a very hard time modding the 5sfe 2.2L to make 200hp. But there are a few mods you can do. Such as Header, exhaust, intake, cams, and tuning. The install of cams will REALLY change the way car feels/pulls. Unfortunately there is really no performance for the 5sfe out there, so the only real option to make above 200hp is to turbo. There is a lot of information out there for turboing the 5sfe, just look up the names Presure2 or Supershannon77. There is plenty of reading to be had there.

You can also look up the 3sgte swap. Its a factory turbo motor swap that is commonly done in these cars. This is another great option for our cars.

well i guess i'll be the first to tell you off for not looking at stickies and other threads, read around a bit, its dam near impossible to get 5s to run 200hp (to the ground) and still be NA. turbo is very possible. read the progress threads of presure2 among others that will give you plenty of info about the 5s

Dude, WTF.....that is not necessary, he just joined today. His post was no better no worse than yours

This post has been edited by _Jim_: Jan 31, 2009 - 9:37 PM

[97celiman]

so its ok for the mods to say that but not other people, all i said was look around, since half the people who join instantly make one of these threads, its easier for them to read than to have us bring all the links to them, plus they learn alot more (at least i did) and i said its dam near impossible to get it 200 hp keeping it NA

"You will have a very hard time modding the 5sfe 2.2L to make 200hp"

soooo i dunno what i said that was much different, ill say, i'd suggest looking at the stickies and alot of threads like pressures, blah blah blah if that sounds better
either way its saying the same thing

i have nothing against the guy, i was more abrupt than you i figured he'd get through the night

This post has been edited by 97celiman: Jan 31, 2009 - 9:47 PM

[bseaman_5]

As Jim here has said, boosting your engine will be the only way to get 200+hp there are quite a few people on here that know a wealth of info about it. there is also a bunch of info in the stickies, idk if you found em already but
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=5574
there is the sticky for the 5sfe turbo section.. There is a lot of reading ahead for you if you are interested in it.. there is tons of info all over the place too.. welcome to the site!

[Badkarma]

just shows some people can really be dicks on here. if you see that a "new guy" is asking a commonly posted question, and you just feel like "telling them off". instead just dont post any advice whatsoever. It's a forum, people are coming here for help. not to ask for help and get screwed with.

Erich

[IMTech1]

If you want parts email me and I can get you price quotes. mouse@phoenixtuning.com

[Lil-Joe101]

Parden the rudeness rsatype23. Everybody pretty much hit it on the head dude. Use the stickies but at the same time ask questions. Thats wut this site is here for man. Jim stated some good items to increase ur power. Also to increaseing ur ignition is just as helpful. Just replace ur stock ground wire with a thicker gauge. Most people look past that opition. It really does help believe it or not. If ur just trying to to be faster u can also lighten ur ride by removeing alot of useless Item. But thats ur peragitive. Good luck with the build man.

[Spider77]

Wow, I wasn't going to put anything on here cause I thought the reply made by 97celi really wasnt that bad. Im sure that we've all seen worse on this site than what he put down. I know the guy and he isnt a dick, I just think that maybe there is too much reading into this (its not like he personally attacked him). Maybe he didnt really use "forum etiquette", but hey, you cant look at things and take it at face value. I think that if anyone has a problem with how it was written, it should be rstype23.

[rstype23]

im cool with the suggestions. i did do some reading on this forum but i couldn't really find what i was looking for. but thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

i dont really mind turbo the car but i heard that turbo wears the engine and it's quite expensive. i dont need like a crazy amount of horsepower just enough ideally i was looking at 265hp. if i had to go with a turbo i think my budget would be 3000. i did think about swapping and putting in a gt4 engine but i heard that's even more expensive and maybe not worth it.

[richee3]

Hmm... You want your GT to be around 240 hp... Considering you never specified modding your current motor, I have the perfect solution. 3SGTE SWAP!!!! Since you have a GT, you're already halfway there. And that motor has just the right amount of power for you.

[rstype23]

would the 3sgte work with a front-wheel drive? and the stock transmission?

lets say the swap is made for the engine, would that be it? dont need to mod anything to suit the motor?

and dang...that engine must cost alot ><

[92-gt]

With the 3sgte swap, it will bolt up to your transmission and the mounts will work. The main issue though is the wiring. Dr. Tweak will convert the harness for you if you send both harnesses to him. I can't remember right off hand how much it costs to do so, but unless you are a wiring guru, he is your best bet.

[trdproven]

I'm sure everyone or most have been in that same seat the first time - especially me, even till now I ask noob questions hehe. Sometimes it is difficult to find what you need by doing searches because they are not exactly the answer you are looking for sometimes or you can't find it at all. I still think that way until now.

RSTYPE - From what I've learned from manny and jim is that the 5sfe is no beast as an NA car but it indeed has torque especially with clutch and flywheel and boltons. However just like any other car in its class you have to boost it. Like these guys have said if you don't plan to exceed 300, 5sfe turboed is the way to go, and over 300, 3sgte motor swap with a better turbo and upgraded parts.

the only true after market parts which is really OEM for the 5s is the 3s motors - very identical. Same as how frankenstein jobs are done with Hondas and Acuras.

This post has been edited by trdproven: Feb 1, 2009 - 5:02 AM

[rstype23]

the thing with turbo is i dont like the lag. but turbo is good for a where i am. *sigh* i guess adding a turbo would cheaper than swapping, right?

i have another question for everyone. by the way. thanks for the suggestions you guys i very much appreciate it. oh yeah my 2 questions.

with turbo, can i tweak it to has many hp as i want?

and, whats the difference between sport suspension and regular suspension? b/c my suspension is still stock and i need to change it but donno what to get?

i guess i'll be modding the celica afterall... instead of getting a new car. hahahaha

[_Jim_]

I am a firm believer in, if you want LESS than 300whp (not to be confused with Flywheel HP, which would actually be around 350) then the 5sfe is the way to go. I like it for the fact it is still STOCK. There is no BS when ordering parts, if you do need to take it to a mechanic, the car is exactly the way it let from the dealership except for the addition of a turbo kit, and it is CONSIDERABLY cheaper than swapping. Be clear, do you want 265hp or 265WHP. They are two very different animals. If it is 265whp I would go with a T3 46trim turbo, that will suit your needs and provide fast spool. The turbo new is 700shipped. If you have cash to burn you can pick up a GT3071 if "lag" is a concern of yours. The GT3071 is a ball Bearing turbo and will spool faster than the 46trim T3 and still provided you with 265whp. The draw back to this turbo is it comes in at 1300$. But like I said, if you have the cash and are concerned about lag, that is the turbo for you.

If you decided to turbo your 5sfe, do a leak down and compression test to make sure your motor is healthy.

With the 46trim turbo, the kit will run you about 2000-2500 (price includes everything, 3" exhaust, a new clutch, and all the work done yourself)
With the GT3071, the kit will run you about 2500-3000 (price includes everything, 3" exhaust, a new clutch, and all the work done yourself)

Now for a swap, well there are many different ways to go about it. I will talk about the GEN3 3SGTE since you are starting from scrath as to me the GEN2 3SGTE is NOT worth it.

A motor set will run you about 2400
Clutch will be 500
Timing job and pump 300
3" Downpipe (DP) 100
3" custom Exhaust DP back 400
Boost controller 50
New gaskets, fluids, misc, etc. 500

Total 4000-5000 (5000 being closer if you bought a clip like I did and use the GT4 body parts, if not you can sell them for 1000$ +)

[rstype23]

whats the difference between whp and hp? hahahaha imma a newb at this stuff.

and the amount given above is it us dollars or cdn dollars?

[Promasta]

presure2 made this nice turbo kit list for the 5sfe that would achieve 230-280 whp at 11-16 psi:

460cc rx7 injectors (70-100$)
3sgte 2 bar map sensor (~75$)
3sgte manifold (50-75$)
3sgte oil pan (50-75$) + KO racing -10an adapter (?25)
crapo ebay t3 adapter (76$ shipped)
garrett t3/to4e 46 trim with .63 exhaust housing (600$)
custom down pipe +DP flange (100$ + labor)
custom 3" exhaust ($???)
tial 38mm wastegate with 10psi spring (200)
oil filter relocation (with the canton block adapter, transdapt filter relocator, and custom -10an stainless braided lines) (200)
and of course the associated oil feed and return lines for the turbo. (?125$)
a ebay FMIC + piping, couplers, and clamps (3-400$)
and a SAFCII for the noob (100-150used) or emanage ultimate or AEM FIC for more experienced.
BOV?
Walbro fuel pump
Gauges + wires

if this is missing anything guys please let me know.

[_Jim_]

whats the difference between whp and hp? hahahaha imma a newb at this stuff.

well you stated that your 2.2L 5sfe makes 130hp, which is does but that's Flywheel HP before drive-train loss. Drive-train loss (loss meaning the amount of HP lost from the engine to the wheels) for a manual car is usually around 18% and around 22% for an automatic. So that 130hp is actually 110whp. That is a good question because now you will have a more realistic grasp as to power levels you may desire.

and the amount given above is it us dollars or cdn dollars?

Yes US currency

[richee3]

Listen to Jim, Manny (presure2,) and Shannon (supershannon77.) Jim has the 3SGTE swap in his car, and Shannon has a 5SFTE. All three know each other pretty well, so they can answer any questions you have about either the 5SFTE or 3SGTE. My advice for right now is to use the new chat room. You can almost always catch one of those three in the chat room, or at least someone else very knowledgeable in this area. You will learn in 5 minutes on there what would take days any other way.

[DEATH]

would the 3sgte work with a front-wheel drive? and the stock transmission?

Oh...I suppose it does a little better than just work with it [Drop in would be the phrase]
Don't let anyone convince you otherwise - it's fcuking worth it




































[Oh yeah - there are a few Camry v6 option that will put you @ 200BHP+ but - MEH - turbo is where it's at son ] -posterity's sake

This post has been edited by DEATH: Feb 2, 2009 - 3:21 AM

[trdproven]

you can use the 5s tranny on a 3sg, just build it strong.

Jim - would a 5s need internals to boost? what about pistons?

[_Jim_]

you can use the 5s tranny on a 3sg, just build it strong.

You do NOT need to build the 5s trany to support the 3sgte. It has held strong and true on many swpas to 300whp, after that tho.....you should start thinking about swapping to the E153 (can support WELL over 400whp)

Jim - would a 5s need internals to boost? what about pistons?

No a 5s takes boost pressure VERY well. Both Shannon and Manny are pushing 16.7psi daily on there 100% Stock setups. And when I say stock, I mean stock. Nothing different with the motor then when the day it left from the factory, except for the addition of larger fuel injectors. There is NO need for internal work up until this point. Now how much further you can take it....well that road has yet to be traveled

[KAOS]

whats the difference between whp and hp? hahahaha imma a newb at this stuff.

and the amount given above is it us dollars or cdn dollars?

Welcome to the forums, fellow canuk'r.

Might I suggest selling your car; forking out an extra 4k and importing a genuine GT-Four? This will give you the ponies you want, in a bad ass car, with all wheel drive for those sketchy winter days...

lol.

Not everyone has that option... But it sure would be a dream-come-true for the majority of us.

[nammer]

here's another potentially noob question...as anyone on here tried a 3sgte swap into an automatic celica?...would the transmission bolt up as well or what kinda mods will we be looking at to get it to work?

[rstype23]

i think i have a better idea of what i want now.

probably turbo it. and change the hood and front bumper to the ones of a gt4 and redo the interior hahahaha

im curious though. does a awd drink more gas or front wheel drive?

[trdproven]

you can use the 5s tranny on a 3sg, just build it strong.

You do NOT need to build the 5s trany to support the 3sgte. It has held strong and true on many swpas to 300whp, after that tho.....you should start thinking about swapping to the E153 (can support WELL over 400whp)

Jim - would a 5s need internals to boost? what about pistons?

No a 5s takes boost pressure VERY well. Both Shannon and Manny are pushing 16.7psi daily on there 100% Stock setups. And when I say stock, I mean stock. Nothing different with the motor then when the day it left from the factory, except for the addition of larger fuel injectors. There is NO need for internal work up until this point. Now how much further you can take it....well that road has yet to be traveled

What I meant by build it up is install clutch and flywheel, beef it.

Also, compression was ok on the 5sfe factory? So no need in dropping compression to offset boost?

[stephen_lee]

you can use the 5s tranny on a 3sg, just build it strong.

You do NOT need to build the 5s trany to support the 3sgte. It has held strong and true on many swpas to 300whp, after that tho.....you should start thinking about swapping to the E153 (can support WELL over 400whp)

Jim - would a 5s need internals to boost? what about pistons?

No a 5s takes boost pressure VERY well. Both Shannon and Manny are pushing 16.7psi daily on there 100% Stock setups. And when I say stock, I mean stock. Nothing different with the motor then when the day it left from the factory, except for the addition of larger fuel injectors. There is NO need for internal work up until this point. Now how much further you can take it....well that road has yet to be traveled

What I meant by build it up is install clutch and flywheel, beef it.

Also, compression was ok on the 5sfe factory? So no need in dropping compression to offset boost?

factory compression is fine for boost. only thing you MIGHT want to do is get a slightly upgraded clutch.

i think i have a better idea of what i want now.

probably turbo it. and change the hood and front bumper to the ones of a gt4 and redo the interior hahahaha

im curious though. does a awd drink more gas or front wheel drive?

AWD has more drivetrain loss, so that 18% loss for a manual car is around 22-25% loss. so in short, AWD is slower except when traction is an issue (snow, 1st gear), and it uses up more gas, all else being equal.

[stephen_lee]

here's another potentially noob question...as anyone on here tried a 3sgte swap into an automatic celica?...would the transmission bolt up as well or what kinda mods will we be looking at to get it to work?

3SGTE + automatic has been done. you need an electronically controlled tranny (i think all 6th gen are) and an aftermarket electronic tranny control unit.. and set shift points at 5000-5500 rpm, which also limits your power even more, BUT you can build your engine(cams) and turbo size for this lower RPM setup. Smaller turbo, quicker spools, and cams w/ more torque around 3500-4000 will get you a pretty good engine/tranny/turbo setup. BUT if you honestly want to stay auto, i'd just turbo the 5S. that way you don't have to buy, wire, and program a transmission control unit.

[whatthe]

hmm this thread has also brought much valuable knowledge to me as well. You guys seem to make it so easy to turbo a 5sfte. . .im pretty noob with car mechnics but learning more each day. And will probably go down the 5sfte road myself since my engine is still a young puppy

[presure2]

so its ok for the mods to say that but not other people, all i said was look around, since half the people who join instantly make one of these threads, its easier for them to read than to have us bring all the links to them, plus they learn alot more (at least i did) and i said its dam near impossible to get it 200 hp keeping it NA

"You will have a very hard time modding the 5sfe 2.2L to make 200hp"

soooo i dunno what i said that was much different, ill say, i'd suggest looking at the stickies and alot of threads like pressures, blah blah blah if that sounds better
either way its saying the same thing

i have nothing against the guy, i was more abrupt than you i figured he'd get through the night

you'll NEVER see a mod on this site "tell someone off" for not using the stickys.
yes, we tell people to use them, that is what they are there for.


to the OP, i really suggest that you do read thru the stickys in the forced induction forum, jim has already covered alot of the basics for you.

[rstype23]

hmm...i've decided to go turbo

and do a gt4 conversion on the body. now i hope im within my 10k budget and pass a vehicle inspection if i need one.

[Toyota_Celica_97]

man you all talking like tubroing a car is a pieces of cake. i should higher one of you guy to turbo my car lol. but im kinda broke now so i guess i will just lay low lol.

[Sinyk]

Reading pressure2's stickies makes me kind of sad because I don't have the space to work on my car like that, nor a spare vehicle to drive to work in the mean time, nor the expendable income at the moment to invest in a project like this, BUT the tinkerer inside of me is driven nuts by the possibilities that your sticky presents before me, if only I could find the space/time/etc to do this.


sigh...

[whatthe]

^ kinda how i feel haha, i should just pay pressure2 to fly down under and turbo my car lol XD. Then again wheres the fun in that

[block]

hmm this thread has also brought much valuable knowledge to me as well. You guys seem to make it so easy to turbo a 5sfte. . .im pretty noob with car mechnics but learning more each day. And will probably go down the 5sfte road myself since my engine is still a young puppy

yeah, in the last few weeks i've been reading upon the 5sfte sticky. overall, i think it's simple if you do it with the ct-26 turbo because everything bolts right on. it may require some custom work here and there. now i just have to find a frickin' celica!!!!!!!!

This post has been edited by block: Feb 4, 2009 - 10:07 PM

[richee3]

hmm...i've decided to go turbo

and do a gt4 conversion on the body. now i hope im within my 10k budget and pass a vehicle inspection if i need one.

Man, if you are going to do a GT4 conversion and your budget is $10,000, you should look for a front clip of a GT4. Then you'd get all the body parts you need for the conversion AND the 3SGTE. You'd be killing two birds with one stone. I know you want to turbo your 5S, but if it was me, that's what I'd do.

[KAOS]

Reading pressure2's stickies makes me kind of sad because I don't have the space to work on my car like that, nor a spare vehicle to drive to work in the mean time, nor the expendable income at the moment to invest in a project like this, BUT the tinkerer inside of me is driven nuts by the possibilities that your sticky presents before me, if only I could find the space/time/etc to do this.


sigh...

Dude - bring your car to my house this summer, I have a huge garage, air tools, and every gadget you would need to do those certain mods you would like to have done swiftly! We'll make a inter-provincial meet out of it, I'm talking BBQ, maybe a little cruise in the backroads to the mountains for a sweet photoshoot... oh ya!