ST205 Increasing Boost To 17PSI..., I need help on what to do and expect on raising boost to 17psi Options

[veadp]

Hi, I am sure this has been answered somewhere, but I need help on what to do and expect on raising boost to 17psi.

From my understanding, the stock computer/turbo/internals can handle up to 17-17.5psi.

Now, I was looking at buying an AEM Boost Controller, a Turbo Smart Fuel Cut Defender and put in a Down Pipe (I already have a 3" CAT Back Exhaust and an Intake).

So:
1. Will I need anything else?
2. What kind of Power Increase can I expect?
3. Will the car remain Reliable?

Kindly let me know. Thanks.

[Smaay]

1. not that i can think of
2. 330-350
3. yes

[veadp]

Phew! I thought it was gonna become unreliable!

And that much HP Increase?

[delusionz]

i suggest forget the boost cut defender, just get a good boost controller and find the perfect duty cycle thats 1 or 2% shy of boost cut.

[veadp]

I think the Fuel Cut Defender is more of a piece of mind for me more than anything else.

Reliability and Power output is what I'm actually concerned about (specifically reliability).

Can you confirm the power output that I can expect?

[Ted95]

I think the Fuel Cut Defender is more of a piece of mind for me more than anything else.

Reliability and Power output is what I'm actually concerned about (specifically reliability).

Can you confirm the power output that I can expect?

a 3rd gen 3sgte with bolt ons (3" downpipe, intake, boost controller) at stock max boost 17-18psi will put down 300+/- hp, fact.

the factory fuel cut is a peace of mind as its protecting your motor from damage in high boost levels past stock max. usually people install a water/meth kit if they plan on running more then 17psi of boost to help protect the motor. it will help keep the motor cooler and safer under high boost levels and give it a boost in hp with the meth mixture.

This post has been edited by Ted95: Jan 17, 2013 - 3:10 PM

[veadp]

Thanks a lot for the help fellas.

I will be going ahead and purchasing the parts and having them installed.

Once finished, I'll post back here and let you know the update.

Thanks again.

[Nial]

For 17psi (1.1bar) you wont need anything. 17.4psi or there abouts is the standard fuel cut. As long as the car is mechanically sound you will be fine although you may occasionally hit fuel cut in certain conditions

Fuel cut defenders are best avoided. All they do is **** with your car...those things are deadly. I wouldnt fit one if you payed me.

If that is your only mod (other than the ones you mention) I recon you'll be lucky to make 300BHP at best if your car is in perfect working order.

[veadp]

Ok, thanks Nial, I'll keep that in mind.

And 300BHP sounds more realistic to me as well, maybe even just 280BHP.

[Smaay]

i drove a 6th gen with a 3S swap in it at 18 lbs it felt stronger than my 7th gen did making 350. the 6th gen is heavier so that tells me its in the ballpark of 350.

[talen]

Well sense where on the topic of boost and hp. Ill be getting my car finished this up coming week super excited! !
I have st205 3s swap with 3in dp 3in full exhaust electronic boost controller ect...... my ? Is I will be running 15psi what hp levels will I be looking at with 91 octane? Or possibly 100 octane? Thanks!

[Ted95]

Well sense where on the topic of boost and hp. Ill be getting my car finished this up coming week super excited! !
I have st205 3s swap with 3in dp 3in full exhaust electronic boost controller ect...... my ? Is I will be running 15psi what hp levels will I be looking at with 91 octane? Or possibly 100 octane? Thanks!

meh 270hp give or take

This post has been edited by Ted95: Jan 18, 2013 - 12:18 AM

[black13]

What? Your worried about reliability yet wanna install a Fuel Cut Defender? That's stupid because the FCD will actually allow you to run higher than normal boost so with a boost controller set at 17 you will run the risk of going over that and there goes the reliability.

And you'll want to disable the TVSV to allow you to run full boost in 1st and 2nd gear.

Also while it is said 3s' can handle upto 17psi stock, your chances of engine failure are still higher as it puts more pressure on all other engine components.

[delusionz]

st205 barely make 240hp at the wheels on standard with overboost

[UndaGrwnD]

mine does 235 on the wheels, with boost slightly more.

what EBC works well with the GT4 ? simple, functional and easy to use?

[83841]

Im Currently running HKS intake, Berk Downpipe, Kakimoto Exhaust, and Hallman Boost Controller on my ST-205 Pushing 15-16 psi with no fuel cut defender, runs flawlessly. Didnt want to run it at 17psi just incase it spikes.... :-)

This post has been edited by 83841: Jan 24, 2013 - 5:12 PM

[malpaso]

From 2009 I try to find out how to squize some more HP from ST205 3SGTE. I have spend many hours on dyno... I saw what is possible, what is not. Where are the limits. Believe me what Nial wrote below is bloody true

For 17psi (1.1bar) you wont need anything. 17.4psi or there abouts is the standard fuel cut. As long as the car is mechanically sound you will be fine although you may occasionally hit fuel cut in certain conditions

Fuel cut defenders are best avoided. All they do is **** with your car...those things are deadly. I wouldnt fit one if you payed me.

If that is your only mod (other than the ones you mention) I recon you'll be lucky to make 300BHP at best if your car is in perfect working order.

Plus... just do not underestimate one "small" thing. It is called "Octane rating" of the fuel you use. According to wikipedia has "regular" fuel in the US rate 87(AKI) that is 91RON... ST205 has ECU mapped for 95RON. That is in AKI 90–91. So in the USA when you take 90-91 you can expect those 245-250HP with stock boost. When you push the car to 17psi be sure you hit the limit of the 90-91AKI fuel first and you barely reach 300HP. Probably just those 280 already mentioned.

To get higher you need to put inside 93–94AKI fuel OR cool down the mixture. So really do not underestimate octane rating of the fuel you use.

note: is it true you CAN NOT buy 93-94AKI fuel in California? If so... how is got damn possible you have 350HP on the engine with that low quality fuel and not destroy the engine???

[UndaGrwnD]

hmm maybe thats why my car dyno'd with higher power on stock setup ? I live in The Netherlands and use RON98. (JDM ST205)

This post has been edited by UndaGrwnD: Jan 25, 2013 - 4:29 AM

[bsamps4]

I dynoed 298 at 17.6 psi using 93 octane fuel.

[malpaso]

I dynoed 298 at 17.6 psi using 93 octane fuel.

93AKI? That is pretty reasonable power for that boost. Thanks for sharing.

[Ted95]

Dustin (Batman722) dyno'd at 329hp at 19psi on 93 pump gas and 335hp at 22psi.. thats with he e153 tranny but still stock motor.. obviously not running the high boost all the time but just on the dyno to see what he could get.

[delusionz]

everyone stop with the power numbers for a moment so everyone gets on the same page here

Dyno figures - cant f*cking compare FWD and AWD damn it. There isn't a single person here who has an ST202 and an ST205, dyno run the ST205 and then swapped the turbo motor into the 202 and gone for another dyno run to be able to make any such comparison accurate to ~30HP.

In general, a stock ST205 (stock=turbo,injectors,management) will produce up to ~240HP on ALL FOUR WHEELS with some light mods and a healthy engine. This number is alot higher for FWDs.

So what's that at the engine? Forget about it. You cant go by someones guesstimate that well, the dyno corrected 240AWHP into 300BHP so maybe 220AWHP on another GT4 is about 280BHP. Rubbish, you cant draw a comparison on that worth sh*t, so forget engine horsepower and BHP.

Now re-read the title. it states that the OP is running an ST205 increasing the boost to 17PSI he wants to know what kind of power he will make.
The correct answer is up to 240AWHP. Nothing starting 3--. I know this for a fact, my tuned fuel map reaches 102% duty cycle in the sector where 300AWHP would have been made, which is around about 1.45bar or 21psi. Try that with your stock ST205.

[delusionz]

Dustin (Batman722) dyno'd at 329hp at 19psi on 93 pump gas and 335hp at 22psi.. thats with he e153 tranny but still stock motor.. obviously not running the high boost all the time but just on the dyno to see what he could get.

Dustin is probably running water injection and/or a tuned ecu. Dustin is also FWD. Dustins motor and his current state of tune would never make the same power in an ST205. So how is this even remotely relevant to OPs stock ST205 with a simple +4psi boost increase?

[enderswift]

everyone stop with the power numbers for a moment so everyone gets on the same page here

Dyno figures - cant f*cking compare FWD and AWD damn it. There isn't a single person here who has an ST202 and an ST205, dyno run the ST205 and then swapped the turbo motor into the 202 and gone for another dyno run to be able to make any such comparison accurate to ~30HP.

In general, a stock ST205 (stock=turbo,injectors,management) will produce up to ~240HP on ALL FOUR WHEELS with some light mods and a healthy engine. This number is alot higher for FWDs.

So what's that at the engine? Forget about it. You cant go by someones guesstimate that well, the dyno corrected 240AWHP into 300BHP so maybe 220AWHP on another GT4 is about 280BHP. Rubbish, you cant draw a comparison on that worth sh*t, so forget engine horsepower and BHP.

Now re-read the title. it states that the OP is running an ST205 increasing the boost to 17PSI he wants to know what kind of power he will make.
The correct answer is up to 240AWHP. Nothing starting 3--. I know this for a fact, my tuned fuel map reaches 102% duty cycle in the sector where 300AWHP would have been made, which is around about 1.45bar or 21psi. Try that with your stock ST205.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp6gAnnSCc0

This post has been edited by enderswift: Jan 30, 2013 - 5:51 PM

[Ted95]

Dustin (Batman722) dyno'd at 329hp at 19psi on 93 pump gas and 335hp at 22psi.. thats with he e153 tranny but still stock motor.. obviously not running the high boost all the time but just on the dyno to see what he could get.

Dustin is probably running water injection and/or a tuned ecu. Dustin is also FWD. Dustins motor and his current state of tune would never make the same power in an ST205. So how is this even remotely relevant to OPs stock ST205 with a simple +4psi boost increase?

EDIT:

your right not relevant at all. it wasn't running meth at the time and I believe had a stock ecu IIRC from what Manny told me. there is a big difference with the st205 and a swapped 202 in hp numbers. i was just stating what the motor could produce, even though it was a e153 instead of the e154f. sorry for the inconvenience.

good luck with the hp gains OP.



This post has been edited by Ted95: Jan 30, 2013 - 6:16 PM

[Batman722]

Dustin (Batman722) dyno'd at 329hp at 19psi on 93 pump gas and 335hp at 22psi.. thats with he e153 tranny but still stock motor.. obviously not running the high boost all the time but just on the dyno to see what he could get.

Dustin is probably running water injection and/or a tuned ecu. Dustin is also FWD. Dustins motor and his current state of tune would never make the same power in an ST205. So how is this even remotely relevant to OPs stock ST205 with a simple +4psi boost increase?

No.
Stock motor, stock turbo, stock internals.
Stock ECU.
No water injection.
I used a symtec map clamp to boost past cut.
I had a Berk dp to 3" cutout, an intake, and e153 trans (FWD).

There is more drive train loss (and weight - so on the street it makes a big difference) with AWD.
300whp is very possible on a true GT-Four, just look on GT4OC.net for dyno #s.
No need to argue.

[delusionz]

Not stock.

GT4OC dyno day

^--- in every run, 240HP is in the higher end

this is very consistent with local ST205s that run 220whp @ stock boost and 240whp @ 17psi with a boost tap and catback exhaust. <--- these are still damn fine figures for a 1994 car (19 years old!!!!) that was factory quoted to have 250hp at the engine!! but still a far cry from 300.

this is known as a safe limit for daily driving on pump fuel. asking the stock ecu & fuel injectors for a further 60hp is achievable under certain conditions and with modifications (that i doubt OP has). All good to say "its possible, Ive seen it on the internet" but if you've ever owned one, its a different story

This post has been edited by delusionz: Jan 30, 2013 - 6:39 PM

[malpaso]

There are many interesting points in this topic and sorry for not following original question. First of all. delusionz damn well knows what is he talking about. I would singn below everything he wrote here because I have the same conclusions with my ST205 after years.

It is like one year ago I made one small calculation. It was like thinking about "I made my dreams come true... really?".
In 2006 (two years after I bought it) I decided to move with my celica forward in terms of power. I got offer to swap 4th gen 3SGTE (so from Caldina) to my ST. So put engine that has 250HP (about) into front wheel drive ST. When consider weight of the car, loss you have between engine and the ground you can calculate ratio "how many HP on wheels you can have for 1000kg of weight". That was lets say my "target power". With ST205 I did the same. But this tome from "the other end". I had target ratio... I had weight of the gt-four... I had loss for AWD car (in fact is is double than for ST) and ended with HP on the engine I need to have to be at least "equal" to my dream in 2006. I ended with number 380HP. That is for 130HP more (about... who cares about few ponies) than has stock ST205 (on engine).

Second thing is "point of view". Someone is looking for "peak HP". Power with engine can survive barely 500miles before something breaks. But someone is looking for power that can give to the engine long life. Safe power. I found "safe" power for stock 3SGTE (with stock everything around) is around 280-290HP (on engine). Stock injectors simply can not give enough fuel and stay in "safe duty cycle" range. When you raise fuel pressure, you can get some HP more. When you provide high octane fuel you can again get bit higher. But not above 300HP (again. talking about engine power). That is bulletproof-safe power and you can run it every day like that. Not just for 10 seconds during drag race.

Last damn good point is age of engine it self. Most of those engines are 15years old and has more than 100k (kilometers or even miles). How much they lost from "brand-new-stock" power? In my opinion 10-20%. No problem.

Note: some say every 1°C of ambient temperature up can take 1% from power from your engine. So dyno during sunny day (50°C ~ 122°F) will be different than in spring when is around 10-20°C (50-68°F). That is why I do not care to say "stock ST205 power is 245...250...255HP". It really has no sense to point 10HP difference in engine like this.

[Mr_Tee]

Next question is, can the ct20b ceramic wheel handle 17-17.5 psi daily?

[delusionz]

i think so, i think the main thing is the oil supply. if you can take off your oil feed and return pipes and clear them out you might save your turbo