7AFTE Build!, This friday. Options

[nate95]

HI, just thought i'd let everyone know that this friday, Oct. 6th iam driving my celica down to Tenn. to John's house or as most of you know him by "Mynzeyes" and we are going to install the turbo kit on my celica . We have 2 1/2 days to work on it, friday evening, saturday, and then sunday and hopfully we will be able to finish it on time but most of all I hope we get the turbo on and get the car running good.

And of course as soon as were done with it i'll post and let everyone know how it went, along with some pics and i'll try to make some videos of it

[94celicadude]

HI, just thought i'd let everyone know that this friday, Oct. 6th iam driving my celica down to Tenn. to John's house or as most of you know him by "Mynzeyes" and we are going to install the turbo kit on my celica . We have 2 1/2 days to work on it, friday evening, saturday, and then sunday and hopfully we will be able to finish it on time but most of all I hope we get the turbo on and get the car running good.

And of course as soon as were done with it i'll post and let everyone know how it went, along with some pics and i'll try to make some videos of it

cool good luck guys, def. want to see pics.

[Coomer]

Don't know exactly what happened, but this topic is back open. Bump.

[trd94]

good luck and if you need any help let me know

[Mynzeyes]

I'm just ready to play with my new tools and new camera...

[hurley97]

let us know how it goes. be very detailed... I am interested

[nate95]

LOL, John your just ready to tinker around arn't you,,haha, what kinda new tools you got? just basic tools, or anything special? and you can show my camera skills up with your new one woOT.

[Shocker]

Im gonna come......hopefully if I dont have any life threatening things goin on

[Punch]

good job get pics up soon

[nate95]

heres some pics of what were puting in!!

[trd94]

i dont see any pics

[nate95]

hhmm thats weird,, i do.

[nate95]

here:










can you guys see them now???

[trd94]

yeah i can see them ,good luck

[nate95]

ok, good,, what do you guys think?

[hitcachi]

nice. I see the piping but.... no intercooler?

[nate95]

haha, did you see the pic of the car??? the intercooler is already on there

[hitcachi]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand Ima dumbass

[sinner96ST]

what brand of turbo is that, and where did you get it?

[WH95TE]

Nice goodluck with it

[nate95]

its a V-Band turbo, T3, .57 trim

[nate95]

1 MORE DAY!! IM SOO PUMPED

[celi_gt_racer]

haha.... u guys mind another visitor?? i dont have nething to do after i get outta school at noon tomorrow......i think john's only a couple hours from me.... hmmmmmmmmm

[C3L1CA]

Looks like you'll be having a fun time tomorrow. Can't wait to see how it works out for ya

[Shocker]

danf it seems a about like there gonna be a celica meet at johns

[nate95]

lets do it,, haha CELICA MEET!! WOOT

[celica47]

lol hope everything goes good man, if you get a lot of people there you better hope you and john can stay focused lol.

[Mynzeyes]

danf it seems a about like there gonna be a celica meet at johns

Whoever would like to come, you're more than welcome to show up. PM me, and I'll send you my address and telephone number.

-John-

[Silver_95_celica]

Hey, can i ask where you found your turbo manifold at? i've been looking but have just had no luck

[nate95]

actualy,,theres the slightest chance i could sell you mine, i know that sounds stupid considering were about to install this stuff,, but thats one problem we might have is that this manifold wont work with the turbo i have.. so we'll see what happens cause i might have to buy a different one. i'll let you know.

[Silver_95_celica]

ok cool...what flange is on the manifold now? or what turbos are designed to adapt to it.

[playr158]

ok cool...what flange is on the manifold now? or what turbos are designed to adapt to it.

www.jgstools.com/turbo

manifolds wala

[Shocker]

ok cool...what flange is on the manifold now? or what turbos are designed to adapt to it.

www.jgstools.com/turbo

manifolds wala

jgs tools wont have a maniflod like this one..it is well constructed smooth inside and out...i saw it tonight

[Punch]

Looks like its coming together make things happen good luck!!!

[playr158]

ok cool...what flange is on the manifold now? or what turbos are designed to adapt to it.

www.jgstools.com/turbo

manifolds wala

jgs tools wont have a maniflod like this one..it is well constructed smooth inside and out...i saw it tonight

you could always go the Bseries route

[trd94]

that is what i did and in my opinion it may be one of the best option for flow and wastegate

[playr158]

indeed you are correct..at least for wastegate positioning flow over the jgstools wastegate positioning
although a jgstools manifold will last longer and is more durable then the typical ebay bseries manifold

This post has been edited by playr158: Oct 8, 2006 - 12:34 AM

[Shocker]

this turbo install is going pretty smooth except we couldnt find an open exhuast shop.

[playr158]

doubt you'll find anything open until tuesday...

columbus day weekend FTMFW

get pictures!

[trd94]

indeed you are correct..at least for wastegate positioning flow over the jgstools wastegate positioning
although a jgstools manifold will last longer and is more durable then the typical ebay bseries manifold

i got mine from xtrem power and when we re did the flange we rewelded some of the welds and added a couple more braces

[Mynzeyes]

Random update: everything is basically on. Just have to run the IC piping, and hooker a few vac hoses. It took a while longer than anticipated because of finding someone to weld/braze the return fitting into the oil pan, and trying to find someone to do the exhaust work. Still have yet to get that made. We had to swap to a different manifold, luckily Jack brought all his turbo goodies over, and we just grabbed out of his what we needed. Finding a fitting for the oil feed line coming out of the block was quite a pain, but we finally got one. All that is hooked up. Also, we had to find some vac T's, and a couple of check valves. Hopefully what we got will work, but if not, we'll add one or so, and go from there. We just have a few more things to plug up, and then we'll be good. That's the only pain about working on something like this over the weekend. Finding places open to find the little special things you need. BLAH. Another update to come.

[presure2]

Random update: everything is basically on. Just have to run the IC piping, and hooker a few vac hoses. It took a while longer than anticipated because of finding someone to weld/braze the return fitting into the oil pan, and trying to find someone to do the exhaust work. Still have yet to get that made. We had to swap to a different manifold, luckily Jack brought all his turbo goodies over, and we just grabbed out of his what we needed. Finding a fitting for the oil feed line coming out of the block was quite a pain, but we finally got one. All that is hooked up. Also, we had to find some vac T's, and a couple of check valves. Hopefully what we got will work, but if not, we'll add one or so, and go from there. We just have a few more things to plug up, and then we'll be good. That's the only pain about working on something like this over the weekend. Finding places open to find the little special things you need. BLAH. Another update to come.

ahh the joys..lol
be sure and get LOTS of detailed pics guys, the 7A guys could really use a good writeup with good, detailed pics.

[nate95]

im getting ready to go work on the intercooler piping while johns at work, and connect the oil drian line. and we were talking about smoking out my back tail lights if we get the time

[nik]

[/quote]
ahh the joys..lol
be sure and get LOTS of detailed pics guys, the 7A guys could really use a good writeup with good, detailed pics.
[/quote]

Thanks manny

ahh the joys..lol
be sure and get LOTS of detailed pics guys, the 7A guys could really use a good writeup with good, detailed pics.

thanks manny

[Mynzeyes]

Yeah, actually, we've had to reference Nik's write-up a couple of times about some things. Although I do agree it could be a little more clear, especially in the FMU/vac area, but it's still a very good write-up. We'll have a lot of pics, and I'll do my own write-up in the near future. Anywho, hopefully it should be running tonight, pending everything goes somewhat smoothly.
-John-

[presure2]

[quote name='nik' date='Oct 9, 2006 - 3:04 PM' post='489498']
[/quote]
ahh the joys..lol
be sure and get LOTS of detailed pics guys, the 7A guys could really use a good writeup with good, detailed pics.
[/quote]

Thanks manny

[quote name='presure2' post='489390' date='Oct 9, 2006 - 6:38 AM']
[quote name='Mynzeyes' post='489293' date='Oct 9, 2006 - 12:29 AM']

[/quote]
ahh the joys..lol
be sure and get LOTS of detailed pics guys, the 7A guys could really use a good writeup with good, detailed pics.
[/quote]

thanks manny
[/quote]
sorry nik, it wasnt meant as a knock on you, the more pics and info we can acumulate about what people run into, and diffrent setups, the better off we'll all be.
if it came off as a knock on ya, im sorry, that was NOT my intention at all. i appreciate everything youve done for the site, including your 7afte writeup.

[nik]

manny im just messing with you lol

[nate95]

car has started!!!! how ever its running rough and we are trying to figure out how to tune it good.. its laging with throttle response, and when reved it and let off it drops really low and almost dies then comes back up? and the fpr reads 2, does any body know what it should read, or any advice on tuning it, thanks.

[Mynzeyes]

car has started!!!! how ever its running rough and we are trying to figure out how to tune it good.. its laging with throttle response, and when reved it and let off it drops really low and almost dies then comes back up? and the fpr reads 2, does any body know what it should read, or any advice on tuning it, thanks.

OK. After messing a little, and getting the minor fuel leak fixed, and capping off one of the three check-valves, the car idles and revs fine with a stable vac pressure(-20psi). However, under acceleration, the car acts like it is having the fuel cut, until around approximately 2700rpms, and then the rpms will climb, and the boost gauge shows positive boost (5psi). That's under 50% throttle at most, as I'm not going to press the turbo bc a) it's just a test run, and b) there's no downpipe yet. Anyway, any clues why it's getting premature fuel cut, but then leveling out and accelerating smoothly with boost?

-John-

[Mynzeyes]

On the list for tomorrow to check regarding issues at hand:
- Check valves: make sure they are installed in the right air-flow direction.
- Spark plugs: new, colder plugs.
- Downpipe: having one made.

I think that's about it. All tomorrow will consist of is a little bit of tuning and test driving, so Nate can make it home safely.

Any ideas regarding the issues, please post and lemme know your thoughts.

-John-

[nate95]

we are having some big problems now,, we can't get anybody to connect the turbo to the exauhst pipe. and the turbo is frying the alternator with out a DP.

[playr158]

did you buy a downpipe flange for them to use? or did you just say here is my car help!

oh btw did John check the check valves like i said?

This post has been edited by playr158: Oct 10, 2006 - 12:52 PM

[trd94]

car has started!!!! how ever its running rough and we are trying to figure out how to tune it good.. its laging with throttle response, and when reved it and let off it drops really low and almost dies then comes back up? and the fpr reads 2, does any body know what it should read, or any advice on tuning it, thanks.

OK. After messing a little, and getting the minor fuel leak fixed, and capping off one of the three check-valves, the car idles and revs fine with a stable vac pressure(-20psi). However, under acceleration, the car acts like it is having the fuel cut, until around approximately 2700rpms, and then the rpms will climb, and the boost gauge shows positive boost (5psi). That's under 50% throttle at most, as I'm not going to press the turbo bc a) it's just a test run, and b) there's no downpipe yet. Anyway, any clues why it's getting premature fuel cut, but then leveling out and accelerating smoothly with boost?

-John-

to much fuel , your fuel persure is not right it should be around 45-50 psi ,and check to make sure the fpr lines are hooked the right way if the are backwards the will cause cut because the fuel is not under the right persure

[playr158]

he doesn't have a FPR only using an FMU...
(from what John said while i was talking to him last night)

[trd94]

he doesn't have a FPR only using an FMU...
(from what John said while i was talking to him last night)

they said they installed a adjustable fuel persure regulator, of at least that is what i was told

[nik]

i think i have detailed pics in the how to turbo a 7afe on how i hooked my fmu up

also do you have one step hotter plugs in? and while on the dyno i adjusted my throttle plates and retared my timing also

here is a side shot


this shot shows the other side of the fmu and where i T'd into for my boost gauge


This post has been edited by nik: Oct 10, 2006 - 2:37 PM

[celicaST]

he doesn't have a FPR only using an FMU...
(from what John said while i was talking to him last night)

if im not mistaken, isnt that 2 ways to say the same thing? rrfpr is the same thing as an fmu.

[playr158]

no a fmu is much different in the way it functions from a FPR...

[celicaST]

no a fmu is much different in the way it functions from a FPR...

how so? not trying to be a smartass, just want to know because everywhere ive read an rrfpr and fmu are just two seperate terms for the same device like pop and soda.

[trd94]

no a fmu is much different in the way it functions from a FPR...

how so? not trying to be a smartass, just want to know because everywhere ive read an rrfpr and fmu are just two seperate terms for the same device like pop and soda.

a fmu or fuel management unit increases the fuel persure as the boost increases where a fpr or a fuel presure ragulator only keeps the amount of fuel presure in the fuel rail at a set psi ,a adjustable fpr just lets you adjust the psi but will not raise the presure past the setting you set it at , where the fmu will raise the fuel presure x times the boost like a 12:1 will raise 12psi per psi of boost 5 psi would be 60psi of fuel presure + your setting of the fpr witch lets say it is at 50psi so at 5 psi of boost your are running 110psi of fuel in your fuel rail and that lets the injectors take more fuel but they will only take as much as the are rated for , hope that helps and if i got some thing wrong please tell me as this is what i was told and what i have read

[celicaST]

no a fmu is much different in the way it functions from a FPR...

how so? not trying to be a smartass, just want to know because everywhere ive read an rrfpr and fmu are just two seperate terms for the same device like pop and soda.

a fmu or fuel management unit increases the fuel persure as the boost increases where a fpr or a fuel presure ragulator only keeps the amount of fuel presure in the fuel rail at a set psi ,a adjustable fpr just lets you adjust the psi but will not raise the presure past the setting you set it at , where the fmu will raise the fuel presure x times the boost like a 12:1 will raise 12psi per psi of boost 5 psi would be 60psi of fuel presure + your setting of the fpr witch lets say it is at 50psi so at 5 psi of boost your are running 110psi of fuel in your fuel rail and that lets the injectors take more fuel but they will only take as much as the are rated for , hope that helps and if i got some thing wrong please tell me as this is what i was told and what i have read

ok so a fpr keeps the fuel line pressure at a set value. but a rising rate fpr is the same thing as an fmu correct? just different terminology.

[trd94]

no a fmu is much different in the way it functions from a FPR...

how so? not trying to be a smartass, just want to know because everywhere ive read an rrfpr and fmu are just two seperate terms for the same device like pop and soda.

a fmu or fuel management unit increases the fuel persure as the boost increases where a fpr or a fuel presure ragulator only keeps the amount of fuel presure in the fuel rail at a set psi ,a adjustable fpr just lets you adjust the psi but will not raise the presure past the setting you set it at , where the fmu will raise the fuel presure x times the boost like a 12:1 will raise 12psi per psi of boost 5 psi would be 60psi of fuel presure + your setting of the fpr witch lets say it is at 50psi so at 5 psi of boost your are running 110psi of fuel in your fuel rail and that lets the injectors take more fuel but they will only take as much as the are rated for , hope that helps and if i got some thing wrong please tell me as this is what i was told and what i have read

ok so a fpr keeps the fuel line pressure at a set value. but a rising rate fpr is the same thing as an fmu correct? just different terminology.

i am not sure about that one i never heard of a rising rate fpr , i have only heard of the adjustable fpr witch could be the same as a rrfpr because you can adjust the presure to differant psi rate but it will not change under boost like a fmu will , if you have a pic or something with some info it would help

[playr158]

good answers there guys

see below for RRFPR clarification

This post has been edited by playr158: Oct 10, 2006 - 5:31 PM

[trd94]

good answers there guys

i'm the RRFPR is still different from the FMU because the RRFPR is still a fuel line only thing I THINK

FMU is boost dependant

thanks ,

This post has been edited by trd94: Oct 10, 2006 - 4:42 PM

[presure2]

good answers there guys

i'm the RRFPR is still different from the FMU because the RRFPR is still a fuel line only thing I THINK

FMU is boost dependant

IIRC, the rising rateFPR will raise the fuel pressure according to boost, much like a FMU, just normally at a lower rate.
the stock toyota 3sgte FPR is a 1:1 rising rate fpr.

[playr158]

word thanks for clearing that up manny

[trd94]

yeah thanks manny

[Mynzeyes]

done. finally. details later. after i've rested some. i need a nap.

[trd94]

sooo...... any updates today , how is every thing going

[nate95]

OK WE HAVE A PROBLEM!! well the car is running great,, however... it will boost up to 4psi and run good,, but as soon as it hits 5psi its like the car is cuting off or somthing?? almost doesn't feel like its geting fuel, the car gets jurky and wont accelerate...any body know what to do about that??

[playr158]

stay at 4psi?!

[nate95]

ok, i think i might have figured somthing out,, tell me what you guys think,, when we got the new spark plugs we opened the gap up,, more than stock,, and someone now told me that they are suppose to be closed alittle more than stock for a turbo, other wise the turbo will just blow the spark out if it has to reach to far,, would that cause this problem?? cause it is almost like its missing..

any body know how many degrees to retard the timing by??

[jgreening]

other wise the turbo will just blow the spark out if it has to reach to far

As I understand it, there are two main problems with too much gap: (1) the spark may travel to something other than the ground electrode; (2) the electrode and insulator are exposed to higher temperatures. Ideally, you want the smallest gap possible to make your car idle well - under high revolutions, less gap will not be a problem.

[NuclearHappineS]

rrfpr and fmu are the same thing

fmu is just a fancy name that vortech probably came up with. if you look at begi fmu's they call them RRFPR's because technically that's what they are. Cartech also has them too.

[nate95]

here are some of the pictures guys!!



heres jack!



John installing the fuel pump.

[Shocker]

man that intercooler fits tight and even....

[trd94]

glad to see it up and running , i dont know if i would like where the ic pipe has to go over top the turbo ,that will get a lot of heat and might be a problem, i would of clocked the turbo and put it to the bottom , i would say your fuel presure still might be off a little , might have to adjust it a little

[Mynzeyes]

glad to see it up and running , i dont know if i would like where the ic pipe has to go over top the turbo ,that will get a lot of heat and might be a problem, i would of clocked the turbo and put it to the bottom , i would say your fuel presure still might be off a little , might have to adjust it a little

we clocked the turbo about 5 times trying to find the best way to go. true, it's not the best, but it was the best of our options. other places would have put it right into the block, or right into the radiator. the downpipe and other items were going to be in the way. a little heat wrap will cure it. and also, it's where the air is coming out of the turbo, so it's already super-heated anyway, as it hasn't gone through the intercooler. all-in-all, i think that's a pretty good route for it to go based on our options. could be better, sure, but at this point, at least it's running, boosting fine, and everything's kosher.

btw, nate got the boost issue worked out, but the problems are still existing with the boost controller. yeah, it's hooked up right based on a few other applications, but for some reason it's not controlling it. the check valves we used were not right for the application i guess, and so he swapped those, and now there is no boost cut at 5psi. so yay to that. i'm going to be uploading pictures either tonight, or tomorrow while at work, and i'll post some up, as i think we can call this project 99% officially done.

-John-

[Batman722]

how did you mount the IC ?

[Mynzeyes]

how did you mount the IC ?

There are 2 braces on the bottomside of the intercooler. They hold it very steady, but when the c-one bumper is on, the top of the IC rests on part of the opening of the mouth, and that holds it even more still.

Nate and Jack mounted that and ran the piping on Monday while I was at work, but I believe that's how it's on there. They had the bumper on by the time I got home.

[nate95]

yes the cut out problem was finlay worked out with the right check valves, and now the car is running better than i had imagined!! it is soo much faster and pulls soo hard, but ya i still have the boost controller problem. But over all, i say the car is purly amazing now .. thanks John!

[Bitter]

how do your plugs look? whats your WOT A/F?

[playr158]

word....told john it was the check valves...

glad you got it runing right

do you have a picture of how your boost gauge is hoooked up ?

This post has been edited by playr158: Oct 13, 2006 - 1:10 PM

[nate95]

i have it hooked up like,, turbo port to boost controler in, then wastegate to boost controller out, and the other port on the waste gate is capped.

[Mynzeyes]

OK, sorry it took so long to upload the pictures. But, uploading 92 pictures onto photobucket takes a while, as you can only upload 20 at a time. Anyway, here are a couple of "teasers", I guess, followed by a link:





Here is the folder: Nate's 7AFTE.

Any questions about any of the pictures, feel free to ask.

[Bitter]

how do your plugs look? whats your WOT A/F?

eh?

[Mynzeyes]

how do your plugs look? whats your WOT A/F?

eh?

Wide-Open-Throttle air/fuel ratio. As per his gauge. Before he left here, at WOT, I believe it was 1 LED into the "rich".

[Bitter]

what kind of guage? blinky-light off the stock narrow band or a real wideband?

those narrowband guages are as useful as a 'one legged man in an ass kicking contest'

a stock 7A-FE will hit 11.2:1 on a wot pull into 3rd gear at the top of the powerband, which is way into rich and beyond the reading of a stock sensor, so if he's just one light into rich on a blinky light he could actually be runinng lean under boost. the stock narrow band sensors consider rich 14:1 and below and are better at reading lean conditions above 14.7:1, additionally heat can skew the readings falsly lean by upto .5 afr points.

i dont mean any insults guys, but i think nate95 needs to be sure and pull his plugs after some hard wot pulls to make sure he's not running lean.

[x_itchy_b_x]

i agree 100% take it too a dyno with a wide band if you dont wanna have to spend the cash, its worth not destroying the motor. but glad to see it boosting.

[Mynzeyes]

oh i know, i told him to get to a dyno asap, but there are none around him. and i also told him that the A/F gauge doesn't do a lot, but at least it gives an idea, somewhat, and it's all we have to go by at this point. in order to get an accurate reading, he needs to go with a wideband. he understands all this, but money does not grow on trees. nor do dynos. the plugs pulled indicated running a little rich, but thta was before we had it running perfectly, so i don't know what they look like now, he'd have to pull them out and tell you himself.

but hey guys, he's working on it, and it can't all be done instantly. the kid's still gotta use some of that money to eat. .

[nate95]

um i took my plugs out and they are alittle black around the ring, so its running rich.

[Bitter]

its not the ring you look at, its the ceramic around the center electrode. that should be off white to tan colored with no white speckles.

i agree 100% take it too a dyno with a wide band if you dont wanna have to spend the cash, its worth not destroying the motor. but glad to see it boosting.

dyno wide bands are OK, but can read 1-2 points leaner than fact if you still have a cat.

[nate95]

theres no white speckles on it either, it looks normal to me, and the other part is tanish in color

[Bitter]

well thats good. so what kind of A/F monitor are you using? wideband or stock narrowband with blinky light guage?

[SpoonR530]

Very very nice work guys. Looks like a proper install, uber clean. With 92 Pictures im glad it was also well documented!!! Oh and i agree dynodynodyno

[nate95]

um ya its just a stock O2 sensor with gauge.

[playr158]

um ya its just a stock O2 sensor with gauge.

so basically all its really good for is a cool light show....find a real wideband and check it out

[Bitter]

um ya its just a stock O2 sensor with gauge.

i mean no offence, but sell that peice of junk and get a wideband. dont beleive me? google up "blinky light guage" and you'll see what i mean.

The Blinky Light meters out there like Cyberdyne, Autometer, and EFI's Dual Meter are perfectly accurate at reading the voltage from the O2 sensor and lighting up the proper LED. The problem with them is when relying on them for full throttle tuning is that the range is not fine enough. There is a huge performance difference between .90v and .96v. Both of those voltages will light up the top most LED on these gauges. The LED based gauges do have their purpose in tuning closed loop/part throttle at a glance. For more accuracy, a digital volt meter is much better. For the best of both worlds, use the digital A/F Ratio meter from Zeitronix

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&h...amp;btnG=Search

[nate95]

"it works for now guys. if you want me to get a wide-band so bad, then give me money for one. this offers a rough idea until everything gets solidly running and smooth, and i can get to a dyno. once i save up money, i can upgrade to a wide-band, but until then, you all will have to cope with what i have for my setup. i'm sorry that i don't impress you all, but i wasn't trying to." my oil leak is more important to fix right now.

[rayneezy23]

video when you have the time