Longer studs Options

[TomPoz]

I have an issue - in order to put beautiful Volk Racing rims I need spacers - 10-15mm.
In such case I also would need to change studs to longer ones.
I called one company producing spacers and studs and they said - no problem, we can
do it for you but reconsider longer studs as this is quite dangerous to put them on.
They rather recommended spacers with studs in them but they come only from 23 mm
thickness up, which is too much for me.

Anyone has experience with longer studs? I will drive with these wheels fast and hard
so need to be sure that everything is perfectly safe.

[malpaso]

I have same problem Tomasz... Everything what they told you is true. That minimum thickenss is because stock studs are 2,8cm on back and 2,5cm on front and you need "cover them" and use studs (bolts) on spacer or be sure nut will not fell off 1,5(1,8)cm studs. About safe/tot safe issue... someone tells "less bolted pieces you use the better" someone other tells "long stud is dangerous and should split off because of higher load on it".

Honestly I really don't now what is safest for sure... What I know I will use spacers with studs in near future for myself (2,3 in front and 2,8 in back) because of two reasons:

1. I will use them only with summer tires (so reason one is "removability")
2. I don't believe 5,6 studs in back and 4,8 in front are more safe than spacers with normal length studs...

appreciate any other opinion.

I have an issue - in order to put beautiful Volk Racing rims I need spacers - 10-15mm.
In such case I also would need to change studs to longer ones.
I called one company producing spacers and studs and they said - no problem, we can
do it for you but reconsider longer studs as this is quite dangerous to put them on.
They rather recommended spacers with studs in them but they come only from 23 mm
thickness up, which is too much for me.

Anyone has experience with longer studs? I will drive with these wheels fast and hard
so need to be sure that everything is perfectly safe.

[Jdog1385]

The way to go in terms of spacers is replacing the studs. Do not purchase spacers that have studs attached to them. Replacing studs is not a hard job to do, i will be doing the job soon so i can do a write up if you'd like.

If you buy spacers, buy H&R brand product. They are by far the best spacer to buy and they're track used and proven to be reliable. here is a link to their website,
http://www.hrsprings.com/site/index.html

[TomPoz]

The way to go in terms of spacers is replacing the studs. Do not purchase spacers that have studs attached to them.

Well, actually what I have heard is the opposite, and I understand the logic:
- with long studs you have longer arm on which the force of spinning wheel and spacer is acting, which means a stud is easier to be broken
- using spacer with studs in it, the same force is divided onto two shorter arms - one is hub to spacer, second is spacer to wheel - better distribution of rotation force

But the problem remains - 23 mm spacer is too thick. I need to check how much stock stud I have left with 10 mm spacer - 25 mm of stud, less 10 mm of spacer, less X mm for wheel placement.

So the key question is how much of a stud has to be left to screw the lug on it to be safe?

[Jdog1385]

The way to go in terms of spacers is replacing the studs. Do not purchase spacers that have studs attached to them.

Well, actually what I have heard is the opposite, and I understand the logic:
- with long studs you have longer arm on which the force of spinning wheel and spacer is acting, which means a stud is easier to be broken
- using spacer with studs in it, the same force is divided onto two shorter arms - one is hub to spacer, second is spacer to wheel - better distribution of rotation force

But the problem remains - 23 mm spacer is too thick. I need to check how much stock stud I have left with 10 mm spacer - 25 mm of stud, less 10 mm of spacer, less X mm for wheel placement.

So the key question is how much of a stud has to be left to screw the lug on it to be safe?

you wont be ablt to use a 10mm spacer w/ stock studs...i tried 15mm w/ stock stud and i couldnt even get my tire on.

I dont know of a reliable company that sells the spacers w/ the studs in it. H&R is the only company i know of that manufactures reliable spacers but unfortunatly the only kit for our cars requires the stud replacement. They sell the spacers w/ studs fixed to them on ebay but i would never put that on my car.

i would talk to jgreening (member) who put rays wheels on his car and also did the stud-replacement H&R spacers. He can tell you if he had problems w/ them or not...he also had a 3s under his hood so the car did have power and i dont believe he had problems w/ the studs

This post has been edited by Jdog1385: Nov 27, 2006 - 8:46 PM

[playr158]

longer studds with a spacer is the way to go....we use longer bolts + spacers on our VWs ALL the time

they way your looking is i have a longer stud so the force farther out creates more torque and breaks a stud...BUT your neglecting to CHANGE your surface area distance...a proper spacer should slide over the new longer studs "snuggly" and shouldn't have play..this makes the area of torque measured the outter surface of your spacer..because through the hub and spacer the stud is reinforced and fine...your only worring about the length of the stud out side the spacer...just order correctly sized studs that will match the spacer and lug nut and you will be fine

[Jdog1385]

longer studds with a spacer is the way to go....we use longer bolts + spacers on our VWs ALL the time

they way your looking is i have a longer stud so the force farther out creates more torque and breaks a stud...BUT your neglecting to CHANGE your surface area distance...a proper spacer should slide over the new longer studs "snuggly" and shouldn't have play..this makes the area of torque measured the outter surface of your spacer..because through the hub and spacer the stud is reinforced and fine...your only worring about the length of the stud out side the spacer...just order correctly sized studs that will match the spacer and lug nut and you will be fine

thanks for the technical backup there...i just couldnt get it out as clear as you did.

[playr158]

eh i'm just lucky that was the section we coverd in physics last week lolz

[Jdog1385]

eh i'm just lucky that was the section we coverd in physics last week lolz

haha, pays to stay awake sometimes

[6gsillyca]

If you do go with longer studs, seperate from the spacer, you can replace just the studs if you need to.

I am in a bit of a pickle myself regarding replacing studs. I now have jgreening's old celica and it has 15mm H&R wheel spacers currently installed. Problem is, last time it was in the shop, they either didnt torque the wheels down enough, or they over torqued them, and almost all the studs on one wheel sheared off. By the time I pulled over, there was just one bolt still attached to the hub, holding my front wheel on.

Now, becuase I have longer studs, they couldnt just replace them. I need to order a new set of studs from H&R themselves, because nowhere else carries studs that long, and it is going to cost me almost $100 shipped to canada. I think this is a bit steep for 5 studs.

At the moment I have OE toyota replacement studs on the one front wheel with the spacer removed. The other 3 wheels have the longer H&R studs, and the spacers still installed. I am debating ordering another set of studs from H&R or replacing all the studs with OE toyota's, and taking off all the spacers, and looking for a rim with "more proper" offset, probably something in the 18" 40-45 offset.


Consider this when looking for spacers

[TomPoz]

...looking for a rim with "more proper" offset, probably something in the 18" 40-45 offset.

Wow, you call ET of 40-45 proper? I have 42 and it is def too high.
Concerning replacement studs - I don't know the company but ICHIBA USA sells longer studs for Celica for 5 / 15 / 25 mm spacers. I think cheaper than H&R.

Anyway, I have ordered two cheapest 5 mm spacers just to check if I can get away with single 5 mm spacer leaving stock studs, or maybe 10 mm with stock studs. I will let you know the results.

Still the question is how much of a stud I need left out to safely put the lugs on?

[playr158]

as much as the lug nut is deep

[TomPoz]

as much as the lug nut is deep

Sorry but my English is good, seems that American not enough.
What do you mean by lug nut?

[playr158]

you call them "LUGS" we call them "LUG nuts"
whatever you spin onto the stud to hold the wheel on



This post has been edited by playr158: Nov 29, 2006 - 8:12 PM

[eggman40]

Go here, www.wheeladaptor.com I got mine from here, only thing is i drove my car there and they took my took my wheel off and took measurements. They then made them on the spot. The gave me life time warranty and told me that i could drive hard and abuse them all i want, because they will withstand them. Apparently they make them for drag cars dualy trucks. They said if i ever have a problem with them, just to take them back. I used my to convert from 5x100 to 5x114.3 wheels. It sat the wheel right at the fender perfectly. Hope this helps



Ps. the rims are not the ones in my profile. I will put them on when i paint my car.

[TomPoz]

Thanks guys.

@playr158: my lug nuts are around 1" long (=deep), so it is impossible to have them for full length on studs even without spacers

@eggman40: it doesn't seem that wheeladaptor.com would ship to Europe, unfortunately.

[Slick]

Go here, www.wheeladaptor.com I got mine from here, only thing is i drove my car there and they took my took my wheel off and took measurements. They then made them on the spot. The gave me life time warranty and told me that i could drive hard and abuse them all i want, because they will withstand them. Apparently they make them for drag cars dualy trucks. They said if i ever have a problem with them, just to take them back. I used my to convert from 5x100 to 5x114.3 wheels. It sat the wheel right at the fender perfectly. Hope this helps

What do you mean "convert to 5x114.3"? Is that a standard measurement on the hub for U.S. models? Could it be why the rotors that i ordered for the U.S. celica do not fit the JDM model because of the placements of the studs?

[malpaso]

@eggman40: it doesn't seem that wheeladaptor.com would ship to Europe, unfortunately.

Tomasz, If you are looking just for studs I have something for you (yea, pages in Czech, but I believe you will understand):
a) nuts, lugs, studs... everything http://www.kola-srouby.cz/
b) AJIMEX studs http://tuning.autodoplnky.cz/ajimex/
c) H&R spacers with studs for sale here

If you will need help with buy anything from here, let me know...

...and just example

[TomPoz]

Thanks, Martin - if I need help, def I'll let you know.

[eggman40]

What do you mean "convert to 5x114.3"? Is that a standard measurement on the hub for U.S. models? Could it be why the rotors that i ordered for the U.S. celica do not fit the JDM model because of the placements of the studs?

The celica comes with a 5x100 lug pattern. I bought wheels on ebay that i thought, and the seller thought were 5x100 but were actually 5x114.3 so i had to get the adaptors made in order for the wheels to fit my car.

[Jdog1385]

What do you mean "convert to 5x114.3"? Is that a standard measurement on the hub for U.S. models? Could it be why the rotors that i ordered for the U.S. celica do not fit the JDM model because of the placements of the studs?

The celica comes with a 5x100 lug pattern. I bought wheels on ebay that i thought, and the seller thought were 5x100 but were actually 5x114.3 so i had to get the adaptors made in order for the wheels to fit my car.

how much did that run you?

[TomPoz]

OK, test was done: 5 mm is not enough, 10 mm is just fine but I can't even reach studs with lug then.
Ergo - I have to go with 10 mm spacers and longer studs, no other option.

I know you recommend H&R but they are extremely expensive here (150$ for pair of spacers without studs).
Anyone had experience with Ichiba USA?

[Slick]

What do you mean "convert to 5x114.3"? Is that a standard measurement on the hub for U.S. models? Could it be why the rotors that i ordered for the U.S. celica do not fit the JDM model because of the placements of the studs?

The celica comes with a 5x100 lug pattern. I bought wheels on ebay that i thought, and the seller thought were 5x100 but were actually 5x114.3 so i had to get the adaptors made in order for the wheels to fit my car.

A similar thing happend to me with brake discs, but the other way around. the lug pattern on my celica was 5x114.3 and i ordered discs from the U.S. with a pattern on 5x100. BTW, how do you measure the lug patterns?

[Kadett]

H&R DRS series come with the appropiate longer studs. Quality of the product is excellent. Using them for 7 months now with no problems.

@Slick

Like this:



This post has been edited by Kadett: Dec 3, 2006 - 1:15 PM

[soulshadow]

Can u guys really trust your life to a aluminium spacer with studs on them? Its like bolting two rims on.

[Slick]

H&R DRS series come with the appropiate longer studs. Quality of the product is excellent. Using them for 7 months now with no problems.

@Slick

Like this:

Thanks Kadett!

Can u guys really trust your life to a aluminium spacer with studs on them? Its like bolting two rims on.

Now why did you have to go there?

[TomPoz]

Looks like either I:
- go with 15 mm spacers by brand producer (H&R, Ichiba, Ultralite) with longer studs and hubcentric rings (need to go from 54.1 to 73.1)
- address one of local companies producing spacers to provide me with 10 mm spacers with integrated centering adaption and buy quality longer studs

There is no easy way, but most probably I will go the first one.

[playr158]

if the cost is so great there what is the price difference here in the US?
if its a vast savings (including the shipping) i'm sure we can work something out to help you

[TomPoz]

if the cost is so great there what is the price difference here in the US?
if its a vast savings (including the shipping) i'm sure we can work something out to help you

Thanks for the offer but seems that I can handle it myself - price per pair of Ichiba / H&R with studs in US is ~100$ plus shipping, Ultralite in UK is in the same range. From US I can have it just brought to me after being shipped to my cousin in Chicago (my father visits you once a month), shipping from UK should not be too expensive.

[Kadett]

Got my H&R kits for 70 euro's per axle

[eggman40]

The celica comes with a 5x100 lug pattern. I bought wheels on ebay that i thought, and the seller thought were 5x100 but were actually 5x114.3 so i had to get the adaptors made in order for the wheels to fit my car.

how much did that run you? It ran me around 300

Can u guys really trust your life to a aluminium spacer with studs on them? Its like bolting two rims on.

your not really running two rims. your basicaly just making the offset of your wheel smaller. ll take some picks and show you what i mean

[6gsillyca]

Looks like either I:
- go with 15 mm spacers by brand producer (H&R, Ichiba, Ultralite) with longer studs and hubcentric rings (need to go from 54.1 to 73.1)
- address one of local companies producing spacers to provide me with 10 mm spacers with integrated centering adaption and buy quality longer studs

There is no easy way, but most probably I will go the first one.

What are hubcentric rings? Is it necessary to use them when you use spacers?

[Kadett]

Hubcentric rings are plastic rings that are fitted to match the difference between your hub on your wheel and internal diameter of the rim. This to make sure that the wheel is perfectly centered on the hub when you bolt them onto the car.

[jgreening]

Looks like either I:
- go with 15 mm spacers by brand producer (H&R, Ichiba, Ultralite) with longer studs and hubcentric rings (need to go from 54.1 to 73.1)
- address one of local companies producing spacers to provide me with 10 mm spacers with integrated centering adaption and buy quality longer studs

There is no easy way, but most probably I will go the first one.

What are hubcentric rings? Is it necessary to use them when you use spacers?

It depends on the hub opening size of your wheels. It has nothing to do with spacers.

[doGGy]

your not really running two rims. your basicaly just making the offset of your wheel smaller. ll take some picks and show you what i mean

You are correcting ofset TO THE RIGHT ONE. Celica ofset is +38. so if you are using wheels of +42 so you are putting your rims MORE inside - so using spacers is just putting rims into correct position as it WAS from factory.

Tom - my honest opinion - if you gonna go with 15mm spacers - try to find ones what bolts on to your stock studs and spacers have own studs... 15mm longer studs just doesnt sound too good for me...

Thanks god my new Volks are +32... More then enouth - i will even have to roll my fenders...

[playr158]

right now i have 16mm spacers on each rear...with longer wheel bolts...0 issues

spacers + longer bolt

[TomPoz]

So finally I have bought H&R spacers: Trak+ DRS system, 15mm per side, with long replacement studs. They look really trustworthy. 125$ per axle.

[SveNRG]

How are the 15mm H&R's working out for you? I'm faced with similar problem. Had susperstrut front suspension fitted to my Celica and the ST205 brake calipers. There are 25mm spacers on there now, but the ET is a bit too low now. ET45 rims you see. So I'm thinking 15mm H&R as well. Any problems so far?