Burning Oil, from where? Options

[hurley97]

ok, I'm already working on the issue I just want various opinions to work with in case I run out of ideas.



recently my car has been going through oil like crazy. here are some of the facts so far:
- it doesn't seem to be leaking from any gaskets (at idle speed) checked valve cover, sender, and head gaskets
- never see any puddles of oil on the ground after being parked
- no blue smoke out the back. theres a little white smoke, slightly more than there used to be but not that bad at all and could just be from the cold and wet weather. and it smells normal
- oil light comes on about every 2,000 miles or so now. before about 3 or 4 months ago it had never come on before, I would just change it every 3-5k miles regardless
- extra info: started out using 10w-40 then switched to 5w-30 then 5w-30 synth now 10w-30 synth (over the course of about 3 years)


here's whats happened and when in detail:

[07.15.06] 159,400 mi - oil and filter changed, everything normal

[08.20.06] 162,300 mi - oil and filter changed again, like normal

[09.01.06] 163,165 mi - first time I'd ever seen the oil light come on. was low but still clear, 1qt added

[09.16.06] 164,749 mi - oil and filter changed

[10.14.06] 166,853 mi - oil light on again. very low but still clear, 1qt added

[11.02.06] 168,262 mi - oil light on. switch to Mobil 1 full synth 5W-30, changed oil and filter

[11.26.06] 170,000 mi - oil light on. added 1qt Shell 10W-40 synth blend, its all I could get and I had a long drive home

[11.30.06] 170,748 mi - oil and filter changed. switch to 10W-30, still Mobil1 full synth

[12.18.06] 172,370 mi - oil light on. change oil and filter

[01.04.07] 173,800 mi - oil light on. found oil leaking from drain plug, tightened it and put it 3qt Mobil1. ran car for about an hour, no more leaking from plug

[01.07.07] 173,900 mi - still no leak from drain plug. added engine oil tracer dye, will check it in a few days



thats where I am now. throw out any ideas you might have and I'll either try it or tell you I've already tried.

This post has been edited by hurley97: Mar 15, 2007 - 11:25 PM

[97lestyousay]

Our cars really are twins. I am losing/using about that much also.
No signs of where it is going. My car has less than 90K on it
so don't feel to bad.

[hurley97]

damn. my car feels old now. I got it with about 126,300 miles so its been fine for almost 40,000 miles. but that is weird thats its happening around the same point in time. maybe its just aged parts rather than worn?


other than this the car runs incredibly smooth for the amount of miles it has. if I can't figure out why its doing this I'm going to have to switch back to regular oil and just keep putting more in when it needs it. I'm not going to spend more on synth if its just going to eat it every 2,000 miles ....

This post has been edited by hurley97: Jan 8, 2007 - 12:42 AM

[97lestyousay]

I just switched back to castrol gtx 5w-30 from mobile1 5w-30.
I was using this before and didn't seem to have as much loss.
I haven't driven enough yet to really tell since I switched back.

[hashmaster52]

my car is at 142xxx miles and it also burns/leaks oil. it runs great, but somehow loses alot of oil n i have to constantly top it off.

quick off topic question: how much oil does the st take? i put about 4qts in when i change the oil, maybe even more. i just try to get it to the full mark onthe dipstick. Also, i thought that the cross hatched part of the dipstick is supposed to be 1qt, but on mine, it is definitely more than that.

This post has been edited by hashmaster52: Jan 8, 2007 - 1:46 AM

[56willysnut]

My sons car (147K) is curently burning oil at the rate of 1 qt. for every two hundred fifty miles, it smokes on start up, and while at highway speeds, I changed out the valve stem seals hoping that would cut down comsuption, no such luck, My next step is to replace the motor with another used engine with less miles that isn't supposed to be using any oil. Keeping fingers crossed on that one. My guess is that the previous owner overheated it and burned up the rings in it.

[Bitter]

next oil change run 1/2 qt ATF through the engine for 100 miles and then change the oil again. i suspect that you're loosing it through valve seals, which can be accelerated if you do alot of high rpm driving.

[hurley97]

I just switched back to castrol gtx 5w-30 from mobile1 5w-30.
I was using this before and didn't seem to have as much loss.
I haven't driven enough yet to really tell since I switched back.

haha. same here, used to use Castrol GTX and never had a problem.

[hurley97]

my car is at 142xxx miles and it also burns/leaks oil. it runs great, but somehow loses alot of oil n i have to constantly top it off.

quick off topic question: how much oil does the st take? i put about 4qts in when i change the oil, maybe even more. i just try to get it to the full mark onthe dipstick. Also, i thought that the cross hatched part of the dipstick is supposed to be 1qt, but on mine, it is definitely more than that.

yes, the ST takes 4qts. I think technically its something like 3.9 but I always drain it and put in 4.

My sons car (147K) is curently burning oil at the rate of 1 qt. for every two hundred fifty miles, it smokes on start up, and while at highway speeds, I changed out the valve stem seals hoping that would cut down comsuption, no such luck, My next step is to replace the motor with another used engine with less miles that isn't supposed to be using any oil. Keeping fingers crossed on that one. My guess is that the previous owner overheated it and burned up the rings in it.

I'm hoping the problem can be solved without getting a new engine.

next oil change run 1/2 qt ATF through the engine for 100 miles and then change the oil again. i suspect that you're loosing it through valve seals, which can be accelerated if you do alot of high rpm driving.

I will try that. that was also a thought since I have been doing a lot more highway driving lately

[JonCars17]

I wish my car would get that much life on oil. My car was getting around 400 miles on a full tank of oil and then a couple weeks ago it was getting like 133. As I type this it is in the shop having an engine put into it. So be greatful that it gets that much. For last couple of weeks it would putting oil all of the passenger's side of the car and the rear.

I was trying to make it last til Summer so I could do a V6 swap, but I don't have the time or the money to do it right now so I'm having the same type engine put in it. Atleast I should have a brand new car basicly after it is done. They are putting in a refurbished engine with 0 miles on it in my car .

[LewFX]

i too have switched back from mobil 1 to castrol gtx

[bufferdan]

Wear...worn out rings. My 7afe with 190k uses alot also...it just disappears! Just go to walmart and buy a 7$ 5qt jug of supertech or something cheap and use it to top off every few weeks.

[Bitter]

what kind of milages are you guys at? im at 123K miles and i use about 1/3 qt every 3-4k miles.

[hurley97]

what kind of milages are you guys at? im at 123K miles and i use about 1/3 qt every 3-4k miles.

when I first got the car it had about 126k and when I'd forget and change it after 5 or 6k miles it would still be over half full

[LewFX]

try using an oil additive such as lucas or napa brand.

[wind]

im just comming up to 200,000km....

im using ~2 liters between oil changes.... it burns on start up and the rear main seal is leaking more and more every month.

rebuild time.

[presure2]

next oil change run 1/2 qt ATF through the engine for 100 miles and then change the oil again. i suspect that you're loosing it through valve seals, which can be accelerated if you do alot of high rpm driving.

naa, if it was leaking that bad thru the seals, it would be smoking pretty much non-stop for her to loose that much oil.
steff, have D climb under and have a look where the tranny meets the engine.
if your sure the upper stuff youve checked isnt leaking, its gotta be going somewhere..
a little bit of smoke on cold start will be valve seals, but i really dont thing its that, if it were, the car would be smoking like crazy with the amount of oil your loosing.
have D gimme a call when your up, maybe we can swing by moms and jack it up and get a good look.

[king_wsk]

what kind of milages are you guys at? im at 123K miles and i use about 1/3 qt every 3-4k miles.

I just hit 150k miles and I burn 1 qt. every 3-4 tanks of gas (800-1100 miles or so). I notice blue smoke when I first start the car... and it smells really bad. But driving after it warms up = no smoke and no smell. I remember reading somewhere that there is some kind of value gasket that needs to be changed every 65k miles to stop this.

What would it take to change it? If I gota tear apart the engine, I might as well do some mods as well. Until then is the Costco 8pk of Castrol GTX 10w40 for me.

[hurley97]

next oil change run 1/2 qt ATF through the engine for 100 miles and then change the oil again. i suspect that you're loosing it through valve seals, which can be accelerated if you do alot of high rpm driving.

naa, if it was leaking that bad thru the seals, it would be smoking pretty much non-stop for her to loose that much oil.
steff, have D climb under and have a look where the tranny meets the engine.
if your sure the upper stuff youve checked isnt leaking, its gotta be going somewhere..
a little bit of smoke on cold start will be valve seals, but i really dont thing its that, if it were, the car would be smoking like crazy with the amount of oil your loosing.
have D gimme a call when your up, maybe we can swing by moms and jack it up and get a good look.

I put it up on the lift at work and checked the underside too. theres slight seepage that all looks pretty normal but nothing where it would be losing oil that rapidly. I don't think it smokes bad at all, cause like you said it would be smoking much worse at the rate I'm losing oil, but if you want we can still take a look at it this weekend and see what you think. I'll be up there from sat to mon

ps. I have not seen you guys in so long!
and I have to pick up that engine harness for Corey. I hope you remember cause neither me or D will

This post has been edited by hurley97: Jan 9, 2007 - 10:50 PM

[presure2]

are your underplastics installed?

[hurley97]

are your underplastics installed?

all but the long one in the very front.



I brought it back into the shop at work today. it wasn't busy so instead of having someone else check it like last time I had someone rev it while I checked the back myself. theres white smoke and it smells like its burning oil I'm going to switch back to regular oil and dump some ATF in it and see if that improves it at all. maybe do a compression test. I don't know what else to do

I still think its not enough smoke for the amount of oil its burning. I'd try the valve seals only if Manny wants to help me but if its the piston rings I'm not even going to mess with it, I'll just keep putting oil in when it needs it for a few years until I have the money to do a swap of some sort.


ps. this makes me very sad

This post has been edited by hurley97: Jan 10, 2007 - 11:44 PM

[bufferdan]

[qoute]I'll just keep putting oil in when it needs it for a few years [/qoute]

I have been doing this for the last 50k miles and nothing has changed...car still runs the same as it did when i bought it with 140k and I still get great gas mileage. haha... its indestructable! Also when it warms up use some thicker oil and it will slow it down some. I also notice the harder i drive the car the more oil it uses.

This post has been edited by bufferdan: Jan 11, 2007 - 10:24 AM

[phokur]

Incase we're counting here, mine does the same thing as well. GT with 177,000 miles on it. Gets great mpg, never smokes, and runs fine.

[hurley97]

the car still runs great. even one of the mechanics I work with that looked at it for me didn't believe my mileage was that high, said it looks and runs incredible other than the oil burning.

the thing is, its always burned a little oil. it used to go through a little less than 3 qts every 7k miles or so. that I can deal with. its just recently that its gotten much worse and I'm afraid it'll only go downhill from here

[hurley97]

did a compression test today. all four cylinders read at 225. Dustin says it may have read high if the engine was cold, I can't really remember if it was. good part is that its consistent and if it was cold and read high then the proper reading is probably about normal (as opposed to being cold and reading normal which would mean the accurate reading would be low) ... hoping I'm assuming correctly

AND now the CEL is on.
(I don't know if it makes a difference but I just installed the GT-4 rear strut bar today so I drove the car around the parking lot kind of hard, parked it for about an hour, and next time I got in and started it the CEL was on)

[97lestyousay]

It's not funny, I just have had mine come on a couple times.
Both times after driving on rough roads(paved). I had it reset once
and it was the #2 oxygen sensor. I didn't do any thing the second time and it
went off by itself. When in doubt, blow the carbon out.

[rayneezy23]

my car burns oil and blows blue smoke when you first start it up in the morning then goes away. I hope it doesn't effect the performace of the car

[Celica_Kid95st]

Is it hard to do valve seals? The kit is like $30 some isnt it??

[hurley97]

It's not funny, I just have had mine come on a couple times.
Both times after driving on rough roads(paved). I had it reset once
and it was the #2 oxygen sensor. I didn't do any thing the second time and it
went off by itself. When in doubt, blow the carbon out.

our cars must have bonded in the factory or something. its like that thing where when twins are separated at birth but they still encounter similar problems at similar times...
I'm going to check it today, if its the O2 sensor I'm going to laugh

Is it hard to do valve seals? The kit is like $30 some isnt it??

I'm not absolutely sure cause I've never done it before but I'm pretty sure its not as hard as piston rings. but nothing is too too hard with these small engines.

[presure2]

Is it hard to do valve seals? The kit is like $30 some isnt it??

the seals themselfs are cheap, its all the work involved to get the old ones out, and the new ones in that makes it a "no-fun" job.
you basicly have to dissasemble the top half of the head to get the seals out (t-belt, cams, buckets, valve keepers, ect,ect..)
then actually have the tools to get the seals in and out properly.
turns it into a 800$ toyota job.

[bhawk94]

My car has close to 190,000 miles and uses about 1 1/2 quarts of oil every 3,000 miles. I get a puff of smoke sometimes when I crank it up, but I never have any other problems with it. My problem is old, leaky oil seals on the pistons. This may be your problem along with the valve oil seals.

[subpenny127]

what does the ATF do for it? and is it really safe to do that? im not very smart

[hurley97]

what does the ATF do for it? and is it really safe to do that? im not very smart

it'll clean out the engine, its like a detergent... which I'm not sure that I want cause then it could leak from more places.


theres small leaks from my valve cover gasket. that will be changed out today and I'll see if it helps any.

[wickedcelica]

check the rings. mine was leaking past the rings but no sign of oil burning. Only found out the rings were fried when i desided to disect the engine myself.

[hurley97]

so I'm pretty sure it's burning oil cause it's not leaking from anywhere. although it doesn't smoke as much as I would think it should. I'm told it smokes a little when I shift (up or down). the smoke is white and as a slight smell to it. it also happens when the car is cold and I start it up, then goes away and runs clear at normal idle/temp

now what I want to know is EVERYTHING it would possibly be related to so that I can take the motor apart and replace anything and everything I can. I don't want to take it all apart and just do one thing and have it not make a difference.

so I know I should go for piston rings and valve seals, anything else?

[soltrain]

If anyone's keeping track, I'm almost to 100k, and I go through about 1 qt of oil every other fill up. Nothing's leaking, but I drive everyday to work at ~75mph, which keeps the RPMS around 3,800. I'm guessing valve seals.

[alltracman78]

A couple of other things can cause this.

Clogged oil control rings [oil scraped off the cyl wall can't drain, so get's burned]. This is caused by too long between oil changes, so as long as you know you've kept up, it's unlikely.
Worn valve GUIDES.

Easy way to see if your valve guids/seals are leaking.
Pull the manifold and look at the valves. If they are gunked up, most likely it's from that.

How do your plugs look?

If you did a compression test and got 225, it sounds like you've got a lot of carbon in your cylinders. Or you cranked the ****e out of it.
How many times did you crank it for each cylinder?
You should've done 4.
Did you have all 4 spark plugs out and the throttle plate wide open?

Also, if your rod bearings are badly worn they can cause oil consumption at high engine speeds. Too much oil gets thrown onto the cylinder walls, and has the same effect as clogged control rings.

Also, high rpm driving will burn more oil regardless of engine condition.

Here are 2 interesting facts to ponder [I had to go back to my text book for the exact numbers ]
If 1/1100 of a drop of oil gets past each set of piston rings on each stroke [remember, 4 stroke engine], you lose 1 QUART every 1000 miles. Will obviously vary with engine speed.
Imagine half a drop per stroke.....

If you drip a drop of oil every 30 feet, you lose ~ 3 quarts every 1000 miles.

[hurley97]

my plugs looked fine last time I checked them (maybe a month ago)

I think they cranked it a lot doing the compression test, it was done at work so they kept calling me to the front for one reason or another so I'm not too sure the specifics of everything that happened

I have been doing a lot more higher RPM driving the past few months


I have to find some time to bring it to you one weekend

[Negative]

I will try that. that was also a thought since I have been doing a lot more highway driving lately

This could be a major part of your problem. When I met my GF she lived about 60miles away and I would drive to and from a couple of times a week. I started noticing that I was having to add a half a quart between oil changes. I got worried due to the recall on later 5s's and called a friend of mine who is a Tech at a Toyota dealership and he specifically asked me if i was taking very many long trips during the problem time. I was amazed that he was able to diagnose it like that but he was right.
Now my GF lives with me and so I'm back to my old driving habits and no burning oil.
His explanation was: The hotter/longer duration oil temps cause the water in the oil to burn off therefore lowering the volume of oil.
That plus your higher mileage and worn seals is probably adding up to your total problem.
Hope this helps ease your mind.

[midengine3sgte]

when you do a compression test and it seems low try to pour some oil through the spark plug hole and test again, if it still leaks its the valves if not its the rings

[alltracman78]

His explanation was: The hotter/longer duration oil temps cause the water in the oil to burn off therefore lowering the volume of oil.

That's correct if your level drops suddenly after driving after your first long trip in a while, but continuous long trips like she does don't cause that. Water doesn't have enough time to build up in the oil.

[Relatively] high RPM driving causes higher oil consumption because more oil is thrown off the rod bearings up onto the cylinder walls, and the oil control rings have a harder time getting rid of all of it.
A worn engine makes this even worse.

[hurley97]

ok so I understand some basics but I don't know too much in detail about valve seals. can someone explain them to me... some pictures and/or some details on how to change them would be nice too, even a link to somewhere with that info... thanks

[alltracman78]

In aluminum head engines there is a metal guide the valve slides up and down in.
Valve seals sit on the top of this guide and seal the space between the valve shaft and the valve guide.
In your engine [and most Toyota engines] you have to remove the camshafts to do anything with the valves.
So the top of the timing belt has to come off.

This isn't a really good pic, and it's of my engine, not a 7A, but...
Go to post #15.
The 5th pic down is of my head dissasembled.
You can see the tops of the valve guides all in a row. The metal "tubes" in the holes in the head.
The type of valve seals Toyota uses now are pushed onto the top of the guides.
You can see a small pile of seals [there's 5 of them] right above the head sitting on the towel between the ziplock bags.

That's the bests I can do right now.
I don't have any better pics ATM.

Does it make any sense at all?


*
Forgot to add the link
http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthrea...ghlight=rebuild
*

[hurley97]

ok. so lets make sure I understand this right... when you take the cam shafts off you have this...




so you actually have to take the valves and springs out to get to the guides, yes ?




which means I need this thing for the springs, if not to take them out I need it to get them back in, correct ?




all that to change those stupid little plastic things, right ? what else should I change while I'm in there, would changing the springs and/or guides themselves have any benefit to my problem at all?

I was kind of hoping this could be a job me and Dustin could figure out ourselves (in case Manny doesn't have time to waste on a 7A lol) but I guess not since there's a few tools we need and don't have
but thanks for explaining all this to me, I want to understand it regardless... maybe we can figure out a way around the tool problem and do it anyway

[jason]

new head is like 200-220 from a company called alabama heads i think, NEW valves, guides, seals everything, haven't put one on my car yet, but stuck one on a friends around here n he barely uses any oil, i use maybe a quart every 500-700 miles about, but under heavy acceleration in the morning off a startup it puffs some out the back, if you want me to get some specifics about a whole new head lemme know, or since you work for a parts store (right?) someone there should be able to get you a hook up if nothing else

[alltracman78]

I'll try to remember to answer this tonite.
I'm on lunch and don't want to type a long answer at the moment.

[alltracman78]

I'll add an explanation later tonite, or if I get too tore up, tomorrow.

[alltracman78]

ok. so lets make sure I understand this right... when you take the cam shafts off you have this...

Yes.
You will have to remove the lifters and shims. They just lift out. It's easiest with a magnetic retriever.
Make SURE to keep them in the EXACT order. I can't stress this enough. This way you shouldn't have to reshim the head. You want to put the lifters and shims in the exact same place they came from.

so you actually have to take the valves and springs out to get to the guides, yes ?

Just the springs/retainers. You have to take the head off to remove the valves.

which means I need this thing for the springs, if not to take them out I need it to get them back in, correct ?

That or one similar. To take them out and reinstall.
It's a valve spring compressor.
There are a few different types.
Some you can't use, either because of the design of your head, or the fact it will still be on the engine.
I actually talked with Manny about doing this on his cousins MR2, but he ended up getting a different engine.
Whatever. He was looking at a different type of tool. I've never used it. You might want to PM him for a link. I'm sure he'd remember. If not, I'll jog his memory.
If you do this, buy a few [4?] extra retainer locks. They like to go flying.

all that to change those stupid little plastic things, right ? what else should I change while I'm in there, would changing the springs and/or guides themselves have any benefit to my problem at all?

I was kind of hoping this could be a job me and Dustin could figure out ourselves (in case Manny doesn't have time to waste on a 7A lol) but I guess not since there's a few tools we need and don't have
but thanks for explaining all this to me, I want to understand it regardless... maybe we can figure out a way around the tool problem and do it anyway

Unfortunately, yes.
There is no point in changing the springs. Toyota springs almost never go bad.
Changing the guides will help [if they are worn] but you have to remove the head to do it.
You can probably rent the tool from Autocrap for free. You just have to make sure it's one you can use in your specific situation. Or buy the one Manny was interested in. It was ~ $100 IIRC.

One other thing you need.
Compressed air and a fitting for the spark plug threads.
This will keep the valves from falling into the chamber.
You also want to make sure to keep the piston on the cyl you are working on at TDC. This way if they do fall, they won't fall all the way in....

This is a blurry pic of the spring/retainer.
All this has to be removed by a valve spring compressor to access the seal.


This is what a valve seal looks like on your engine.

[hurley97]

I'll be picking up another head so we can do this out of the car then just swap it in later, that way I can switch out the head gasket and some other things that I should probably change before I continue with my plans

that being said, do you have any more pics/info about replacing the guides?

I'm beginning to understand much more, thanks for bearing with me on this

new head is like 200-220 from a company called alabama heads i think, NEW valves, guides, seals everything, haven't put one on my car yet, but stuck one on a friends around here n he barely uses any oil, i use maybe a quart every 500-700 miles about, but under heavy acceleration in the morning off a startup it puffs some out the back, if you want me to get some specifics about a whole new head lemme know, or since you work for a parts store (right?) someone there should be able to get you a hook up if nothing else

I guess that would be the easiest and most cost effective way to do it, but I kind of want to take it apart for the learning experience... or maybe just because I'm retarded...

This post has been edited by hurley97: Mar 26, 2007 - 4:15 PM

[alltracman78]

No problem.

I don't have any pics of replacing the guides.
That requires a press for our heads. I would highly suggest you leave that to a machine shop.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to know what goes on in there.
That's how I started learning. I took EVERYTHING on my car apart.

[hurley97]

I'm going to use Jeff's old 7A. same year, nearly the same amount of miles, having the same problem.
...but instead of just swapping in a 3S I'm fixing the 7A ...oh well, I think I'll be happy with it in the end

[kevstir]

at about 90k (about 3 years ago) on my 3s-ge i noticed that i would use a bit more oil than usual and get the blue smoke at start up, i changed the oil for that castrol gtx high mileage stuff for about 6-7k, after running that for a while i noticed that the blue smoke on startup disappeared (think the seal conditioners in the oil must have worked), the next 2 oil changed i used siloline pr s synthetic oil and only now (122k) am i starting to notice that it using a little more oil again and a wee puff of blue smoke in the morning , the oil needs changed so that could be some of the problem im seeing now ..

might be worth using some of the high mileage oil every now and again to keep the seals conditioned..

[hurley97]

thats what I use regularly, Castrol GTX High Mileage

the motor has 181,000 miles on it now, its just tired

[lagos]

before you take the head apart, measure the valve clearances and write them all down. if any of them are out of spec or close to it, youll need to buy new shims. it will be a super easy job when you have the head apart.

but... instead of doing all this work for no gains, why dont you think about doing a silvertop swap? hmm... then again, that would also be a lot of work with little gain..lol

[pittfirefighter]

just FYI, talking to toyota techs, it is NORMAL for a toyota to use up to 1 quart of oil for every 1000 miles and acceptable up to 1400 miles....

[Jeremiah]

For the record, I've got 242,000 miles on my baby, and she burns about a quart every 3000 miles. Faster (1q every 1500mi) if I'm doing 90%+ freeway driving. I'm pretty anal retentive about my servicing, and only use good quality (notice I didn't say high priced or synthetic) oil & filters. I also use 1/2q of ATF to flush my system about 200 miles before every other oil change. I have no idea what my compression is, but for 240k+, my little 1.8L seems to be fairly happy / peppy.

Just go to walmart and buy a 7$ 5qt jug of supertech or something cheap and use it to top off every few weeks.

The oil chemists at BITOG love the SuperTech High Mileage oil (They've done several before / after chemical analysis of the oil). It's $8 for 5 quart bottle at Wal-Mart. Unless you're burning through oil SUPER fast (more than 1q every 1000 miles), get the high mileage stuff. It's only about 20 cents more a quart, and has way more good stuff (detergents, and anti-wear goodies) in it than the regular SuperTech.

SuperTech filters are great too... well suited for 3000-6000 mile change intervals, and Napa Golds (actually made by WIX) are great for Synthetics and their 10,000 - 15,000 mile change intervals.

Is it hard to do valve seals? The kit is like $30 some isnt it??

I've changed the guides in a Civic, and an Isuzu Trooper. It's not hard, but it'll take you all day and it REALLY helps to have a friend around who can lend a hand. Trick for changing the guide seals with the head ON:
1) Make sure the cylinder you're working on is in Top Dead Center (TDC). The instructions for this can be found in a repair manual / online under valve adjustment.
2) Pull spark plug
3) Stuff a small rope / rip cord into the spark plug hole. Important: be sure to fill the whole cylinder area / head, as this rope is what's going to keep your valve from falling into your engine.
4) Use your favorite repair manual's instructions to Remove / Replace valve guide seals for this cylinder. It'll involve a special tool (see below) to compress the valve springs, then remove some kind of retainer (c-clip usually), setting aside spring, then replacing the guide seals.
5) There should be another cylinder under a TDC stroke now too (refer to manual to make sure) - do your rope stuff & Remove / Replace seals on this one too.
6) Remove rope.
7) Turn crank 'till the other two cylinders are in TDC, and do them.
8) Feed friend a coke and some Pizza.

If the valve DOES slip into the engine, you just have to remove the head and retrieve it.... which will add another day to your project. I've changed valve guide seals on two vehicles now, and this method worked really well (combined with a good oil flushing, this reduced oil consumption). Friends have used it with great success too.

Valve compressor (like the one pictured above), rent for free from AutoZone, or these from Harbor Freight:



Each head is built differently, so the compression tools may differ from my jobs... but the three pronged deals worked fine for me.

what does the ATF do for it? and is it really safe to do that?

Adding 1/2 (Or, full quart if you can do it without over-filling) quart of ATF in your engine for a short period of time (100 - 500 miles) is not only safe, but very healthy for your engine. The oil in ATF has the same stuff in it as your regular oil, but a way higher concentration of the cleaning agents (detergents), because it's designed to sit in an automatic transmission for a LONG time. Basically you're giving the inside of your engine a nice chemical bath - and a clean engine is a happy engine.


hurley97:
If you're going to change out your head, consider upgrading to the 4AGE head while you're at it. More power = yum.

[alltracman78]

Yeah, ATF is LOADED with cleaners. If you ever rebuild an auto trans, you will see how much cleaner your hands are afterwards.

Those 3 prong compressors won't work on a A series, or pretty much any modern Toyota engine.
There isn't enough space beside the spring.

just FYI, talking to toyota techs, it is NORMAL for a toyota to use up to 1 quart of oil for every 1000 miles and acceptable up to 1400 miles....

Really....
That's news to me....

[hurley97]

before you take the head apart, measure the valve clearances and write them all down. if any of them are out of spec or close to it, youll need to buy new shims. it will be a super easy job when you have the head apart.

but... instead of doing all this work for no gains, why dont you think about doing a silvertop swap? hmm... then again, that would also be a lot of work with little gain..lol

ok. I don't know what the in/out of spec numbers are
my plan was just to take it apart and see the condition of everything else in there and figure out what else I should replace. I'll definitely take some pictures and get some opinions since most likely I won't really know myself

just FYI, talking to toyota techs, it is NORMAL for a toyota to use up to 1 quart of oil for every 1000 miles and acceptable up to 1400 miles....

yeah, my car goes through about twice that... since I've had the car I've always changed the oil as close to every 3k miles as possible (and never left more than 1-2k miles past due) and I always had at least 2qts left when I changed it (thats when I was past due, when it was done on time I'd usually have 3qts left), my oil light had never come on up until about 15k miles ago. so I know what was normal for my car and noticed how much more it started using. it was kind of all of a sudden too...

For the record, I've got 242,000 miles on my baby, and she burns about a quart every 3000 miles. Faster (1q every 1500mi) if I'm doing 90%+ freeway driving. I'm pretty anal retentive about my servicing, and only use good quality (notice I didn't say high priced or synthetic) oil & filters. I also use 1/2q of ATF to flush my system about 200 miles before every other oil change. I have no idea what my compression is, but for 240k+, my little 1.8L seems to be fairly happy / peppy.

theres nothing else wrong with the motor, its in great condition. every mechanic I've asked to look at the car can't believe how many miles are on it, they say it runs incredibly smooth and has been very well taken care of. the compression is consistent, it just goes through a lot of oil.

[lagos]

ok. I don't know what the in/out of spec numbers are

look in the bgb. they have them in there. im doing my valve clearances right now. its a pretty simple job.

yeah, my car goes through about twice that... since I've had the car I've always changed the oil as close to every 3k miles as possible (and never left more than 1-2k miles past due) and I always had at least 2qts left when I changed it (thats when I was past due, when it was done on time I'd usually have 3qts left), my oil light had never come on up until about 15k miles ago. so I know what was normal for my car and noticed how much more it started using. it was kind of all of a sudden too...

do you check your oil between changes and top it off where needed? you make it sound like you dont.

[hurley97]

yeah, my car goes through about twice that... since I've had the car I've always changed the oil as close to every 3k miles as possible (and never left more than 1-2k miles past due) and I always had at least 2qts left when I changed it (thats when I was past due, when it was done on time I'd usually have 3qts left), my oil light had never come on up until about 15k miles ago. so I know what was normal for my car and noticed how much more it started using. it was kind of all of a sudden too...

do you check your oil between changes and top it off where needed? you make it sound like you dont.

if I check it and its below half then I'll put a quart in and make a mental note to change it within the next week or two. but lately its been going through it so fast the light comes on before I check, so I just add a quart or two every time the light comes on and try and change it within the week

which reminds me I haven't changed it in a while and I don't think I have a spare quart in the trunk....

[lagos]

have somone drive behind you and look to see if there is blue smoke coming out of your tail pipe as you drive normally. if there is, its either your valves or rings, and you can check that with a comp or leak down test.

if there is no smoke then it could be an simple oil leak from a gasket somewhere. they can be tricky to track down sometimes.

[Batman722]

she just had a new VC gasket put on. When she downshifts or goes into gear from idle (cruising) a little puff comes out, not much though. It's strange, I wouldn't think it burns so much oil but there's really no leaks around the motor that would cause her to lose so much oil. She does drive above 3K rpms often though...

This post has been edited by Batman722: Apr 27, 2007 - 12:01 AM

[lagos]

she just had a new VC gasket put on. When she downshifts or goes into gear from idle (cruising) a little puff comes out, not much though. It's strange, I wouldn't think it burns so much oil but there's really no leaks around the motor that would cause her to lose so much oil. She does drive above 3K rpms often though...

then i would do a leak down test before pulling the head off. it would suck to do all that work and then later find out that it was something totally unrelated to the head causing the problem. at almost 180,000 miles on the motor, you could have more then one thing to fix to get rid of the problem.

[Jeremiah]

For the record, I've got 242,000 miles on my baby, and she burns about a quart every 3000 miles. Faster (1q every 1500mi) if I'm doing 90%+ freeway driving. I'm pretty anal retentive about my servicing, and only use good quality (notice I didn't say high priced or synthetic) oil & filters. I also use 1/2q of ATF to flush my system about 200 miles before every other oil change. I have no idea what my compression is, but for 240k+, my little 1.8L seems to be fairly happy / peppy.

theres nothing else wrong with the motor, its in great condition. every mechanic I've asked to look at the car can't believe how many miles are on it, they say it runs incredibly smooth and has been very well taken care of. the compression is consistent, it just goes through a lot of oil.

I don't accelerate that fast either (uh... usually ), so maybe I'm getting less blow by on my rings then? A bad (or worn) PCV valve will allow too much oil vapor to blow out of the crank case, and burn off....

Only other thing I can think of is pure luck... maybe I just got a really well built engine?

[DrAg1n320]

hey, just a thought for you guys who are loosing oil, have you guys checked your motors for sludge?