where the doctor go Options

[illneversellmyce...]

has anyone seen dr. tweak around lately? i could not even find his name in the members list, is he not a memeber anymore?

getting close to have my money for swap and its about time i get in contact with him

anyone have some info please relay too me please

This post has been edited by illneversellmycelli: Feb 7, 2007 - 2:54 PM

[ExSane]

Dr_Tweak

[illneversellmyce...]

yeah i wasn't using the _ fond him now thnxs, i'd had been looking for about 10 minutes

Dr_Tweak

[Dr_Tweak]

Doctor Tweak in DA HOUSE!

[Jaws4God]

YAY!! I wonder what Nick needs..

This post has been edited by Jaws4God: Feb 7, 2007 - 3:17 PM

[j0e_p3t]

what swap do you plan on doing?

[illneversellmyce...]

i was tempted by the v6 i read about , but i'll be just fine with da 3s lol

[Dr_Tweak]

Awe comon, I've been DYING to do a V6 for the last couple of years! It would be cheaper! Heck, we could install that thing, build you a full custom mandrel-bent stainless steel TRUE-DUAL exhaust, and STILL have money left over!

-Doc

[jason]

Awe comon, I've been DYING to do a V6 for the last couple of years! It would be cheaper! Heck, we could install that thing, build you a full custom mandrel-bent stainless steel TRUE-DUAL exhaust, and STILL have money left over!

-Doc

no ****, i was pondering doing that swap as well, i figure the 3m has less millage hopefully, and will also be less maintenance, if your dying to do one... i may have a car for ya if ya have plenty of time =)

[Dr_Tweak]

Actually I'm currently booked right into March, but if you want to have it done we can certainly get it taken care of

[illneversellmyce...]

i would luv to attempt tweak but i can go without my car for 1 and a half to 2 months i drive too much lol


how much cheaper ? lol

if the turnaround aint too terrible much more then the 3s let me know and we'll talk indeed

[Dr_Tweak]

I'd estimate it to be about $1000 to $1500 cheaper than the 3SGTE. I would want the car for 4-6 weeks though to be safe.

-Doc

[j0e_p3t]

Awe comon, I've been DYING to do a V6 for the last couple of years! It would be cheaper! Heck, we could install that thing, build you a full custom mandrel-bent stainless steel TRUE-DUAL exhaust, and STILL have money left over!

-Doc

you can do a v6 swap for me a couple years from now. about how much would it cost to get a 99+ 1mzfe and drop it in?

[jason]

hell yeah, ive got a **** load of money set aside


lookin to turbo the bike, and id like to either swap in a 3s but after seeing this, i like the idea of a 04-05 3m like that, id love to have a powerfull-low maintenance engine in the celica, i loooooove how this car looks and turns heads around here, itd be so nice to have it have some power to back that up though, and a v6 with a nice exhaust imo would be awesome

im from pa tweak, so i dunno, for some reason i thought you were from vermont, but i see your in NC now, we deff should set something up

[easternpiro1]

TWEAK IS IN NC?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!? OH... drat, hes in GA...i got faked out!

[jason]

TWEAK IS IN NC?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!? OH... drat, hes in GA...i got faked out!

haha thanks for the correction, i knew he was somewhere down there

[illneversellmyce...]

hey eastern i'm really thinking about doing th v6 what do you think man

[lagos]

how would the v6 swap cost less? just wondering where the savings are.

[Dr_Tweak]

Jason, yeah just let me know, we ship cars down here from your area all the time to get swaps and whatnot.

joe_p3t, You'll have to check with me then, I'm sure the '99 engines will be even cheaper by then. Plus, who knows where I'll be!

how would the v6 swap cost less? just wondering where the savings are.

Well you save $1000 right off the bat due to not needing an intercooler, piping, clamps, connectors. Then the engine itself is generally cheaper than a 3SGTE engine set, so you save some there.

-Doc

[j0e_p3t]

joe_p3t, You'll have to check with me then, I'm sure the '99 engines will be even cheaper by then. Plus, who knows where I'll be!

okay, just don't plan on retiring anytime soon. i only want the best of the best working on my celi.

[Dr_Tweak]

It's unlikely that I'll ever completely stop doing swaps, be it fulltime or parttime.

-Doc

[lagos]

yeah your right , but i have a feeling that this is one of those projects that would end up with its share of hidden costs, dont you think? seems to me like almost anything that you swap into a car will almost always end up costing at least 4 grand when the project is done.

This post has been edited by lagos: Feb 7, 2007 - 10:39 PM

[celica47]

I was talking with K-ESD... and with the tranny from the solora youre looking at a 1k and then what ever the engine costs. PLus the hidden costs like lagos said. But i personally think that the swap is a little more reliable considering you dont have boost, the engine is coming from either a mini van or a solara which arent "Hard Driven" cars.

[Dr_Tweak]

No need to use a Solara tranny with a V6 any more than the 300+hp 3SGTEs that we deal with all day long. The GT tranny will work just fine. But yes, there are still some hidden costs that will come up, but we plan for them. $4k is a minimum number for a V6 swap, I suspect it will be more like $5500 to $6000 into an ST when you add in the costs of the GT tranny, axles, mounts, etc. And if you're auto, then you also have to add in the conversion.

-Doc

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Feb 7, 2007 - 10:43 PM

[lagos]

4k is a minimum number for a V6 swap, I suspect it will be more like $5500 to $6000 into an ST when you add in the costs of the GT tranny, axles, mounts, etc. And if you're auto, then you also have to add in the conversion.

so, how is that cheaper then a 3s swap?

This post has been edited by lagos: Feb 7, 2007 - 10:45 PM

[Dr_Tweak]

4k is a minimum number for a V6 swap, I suspect it will be more like $5500 to $6000 into an ST when you add in the costs of the GT tranny, axles, mounts, etc. And if you're auto, then you also have to add in the conversion.

so, how is that cheaper then a 3s swap?

A full 3SGTE swap into an auto ST, including a full timing belt/reseal/tunup, quality custom front-mount intercooler install, performance clutch, good engine set, tranny, axles, mounts, performance clutch, downpipe, auto/manual conversion and full install runs just short of 7k including labor. And the labor is only $1800 including the custom intercooler install and clocked turbo.

-Doc

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Feb 7, 2007 - 11:03 PM

[lagos]

dang

[Batman722]

4k is a minimum number for a V6 swap, I suspect it will be more like $5500 to $6000 into an ST when you add in the costs of the GT tranny, axles, mounts, etc. And if you're auto, then you also have to add in the conversion.

so, how is that cheaper then a 3s swap?

A full 3SGTE swap into an auto ST, including a full timing belt/reseal/tunup, quality custom front-mount intercooler install, performance clutch, good engine set, tranny, axles, mounts, performance clutch, downpipe, auto/manual conversion and full install runs just short of 7k including labor. And the labor is only $1800 including the custom intercooler install and clocked turbo.

-Doc

just so we're all clear

roughly
$7K + (with full exhaust) for a st185 3s swap

and

$6K or so for the V6 swap

edit: this would be swaps for auto STs, correct ? what about the cost of M/T GTs keeping the s54 ?

This post has been edited by Batman722: Feb 7, 2007 - 11:21 PM

[easternpiro1]

tune up was included?

[illneversellmyce...]

and the most important question
i need to read up again

horse of 3rd gen 3s 255, 4th gen 260, then you boost in stuff yadda yadda

whats the horse of the v6 stock say a ......3mz

This post has been edited by illneversellmycelli: Feb 7, 2007 - 11:24 PM

[snapshotgt]

Okay, I feel as though I’m called to post in this thread before too many people start jumping on this idea because it is "cheaper than a 3sgte", and the general info being provided about this swap.

My car is currently undergoing a V6 swap. I'm not personally swapping it, but I KNOW nevertheless what it takes financially and physically to do a proper V6 swap into our 6th gens.

To start, here is a quick, small quote from the guy who is swapping my engine. He is 33, and has been working on Toyota engines for many years, his experience needs to mean a lot to anyone serious about this. He is personally working on this swap, and knows what is takes. Period.

forget about using 5sfe tranny .. mr2 guys breaking these trannies and it is half ass anyway.. just get a proper solara tranny with rear st205 mount .. all st205 if possible .. use poly mounts as well to keep the motor solid b/c torque will make engine move and hit rad .. use st205 shifter cables as well ..

Many of you need to consider the amount of money you end up investing into this swap -- don't you want it to be done correctly the first time? Did V6 Solara's come from the factory with 5s trannies? No. Yes, it costs more up front, but in the long run WILL save you money. You can ask many MR2 V6 swappers, and they will tell you the same.

I'm not going into specific prices of parts, running totals etc, but I can tell you Doc's quote is NOT accurate for a proper V6 setup. Doc, this is nothing against you, just posting a fair and balanced representation of this swap for everyone here. I don’t like to see people being mislead about what a proper V6 swap requires.

I'm sure the person working on my car, and HAVING FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE with this swap will chime in on this subject.

And for everyone who asks, you will see a thread with MANY pics, and good detailed info about this swap in the near future -- in addition, how it should be done.

Teaser:


This post has been edited by snapshotgt: Feb 8, 2007 - 1:05 AM

[illneversellmyce...]

now that's bling lol....still wanna know the est horse, i haven't heard of anyone dynoing yet but what are u expecting snap

i like this thread most action ive seen on 6g in a few weeks, haven't been bored tonight

This post has been edited by illneversellmycelli: Feb 7, 2007 - 11:53 PM

[snapshotgt]

For HP numbers, and more info -- you can look here:

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=45161

We should be able to squeeze out some more horses with major exhaust and intake upgrades.

This post has been edited by snapshotgt: Feb 8, 2007 - 12:02 AM

[Dr_Tweak]

tune up was included?

Actually you're right, the tunup was not done on yours. Of course you have the MUCH newer 4th gen engine, but something I forgot to add to that list is the custom a/c and p/s lines and such.

and the most important question
i need to read up again

horse of 3rd gen 3s 255, 4th gen 260, then you boost in stuff yadda yadda

whats the horse of the v6 stock say a ......3mz

The MZ engines make from 190hp (early 1MZ) to what... 210, 220 for the 3MZ? And a little more torque than hp in each case.

Okay, I feel as though I’m called to post in this thread before too many people start jumping on this idea because it is "cheaper than a 3sgte", and the general info being provided about this swap.

My car is currently undergoing a V6 swap. I'm not personally swapping it, but I KNOW nevertheless what it takes financially and physically to do a proper V6 swap into our 6th gens.

To start, here is a quick, small quote from the guy who is swapping my engine. He is 33, and has been working on Toyota engines for many years, his experience needs to mean a lot to anyone serious about this. He is personally working on this swap, and knows what is takes. Period.

forget about using 5sfe tranny .. mr2 guys breaking these trannies and it is half ass anyway.. just get a proper solara tranny with rear st205 mount .. all st205 if possible .. use poly mounts as well to keep the motor solid b/c torque will make engine move and hit rad .. use st205 shifter cables as well ..

Many of you need to consider the amount of money you end up investing into this swap -- don't you want it to be done correctly the first time? Did V6 Solara's come from the factory with 5s trannies? No. Yes, it costs more up front, but in the long run WILL save you money. You can ask many MR2 V6 swappers, and they will tell you the same.

I'm not going into specific prices of parts, running totals etc, but I can tell you Doc's quote is NOT accurate for a proper V6 setup. Doc, this is nothing against you, just posting a fair and balanced representation of this swap for everyone here. I don’t like to see people being mislead about what a proper V6 swap requires.

I'm sure the person working on my car, and HAVING FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE with this swap will chime in on this subject.

BS. Don't be angry because your swap is taking twice as long and costing twice as much because you cut me out of the deal, after all the TIME and WORK that I spent guiding you through how we would do it and finding out all the info for you (I have like 1000 emails in my inbox from you), not to mention the many phone calls I had to make to the guy you bought your engine from so that you ACTUALLY GOT IT.

For one, you're going with a FULL REBUILT 3MZ engine which had like 10k miles on it or whatever. That added a lot to the cost of your swap. Then, you were convinced that you HAVE TO use an E153 tranny, which is NOT TRUE. Let's not start this myth again. Consider the facts: There are dozens of 3SGTE swaps on this forum that are running 225 to 250 flywheel hp 3SGTEs. I've never seen a confirmed case where a near-stock 3SGTE damaged an S54 tranny. Then, consider the 4th gen 3SGTE that I swapped into easternpiro's car. He is running 260hp AT THE WHEELS, with a GT tranny, NO PROBLEMS. Fastbird, we're running his 2nd gen 3SGTE, modified and dyno-tuned to 250 WHEEL HP and 250 ft/lbs of tq, NO PROBLEMS. It goes on and on.

The most powerful MZ-series V6 makes what 220hp, 240 ft/lbs at the crank? That's about 190hp and 205ft/lbs at the wheels? Which is SEVENTY HORSEPOWER LESS and at least FOURTY-FIVE ft/lbs LESS than easternpiro's 3SGTE. Which the GT tranny handles NO PROBLEM. I'm talking about first-hand experience here as well. There is no doubt at all, that a GT tranny will have NO problem with even a mildly modified V6.

Then, since you're using an E153, you needed to order ST205 mounts from Japan, get some customized axles made, just to get the engine bolted in! Add the poly inserts (good idea, but not required), ST205 cables, etc....

Now listen, I'm NOT saying that you're not going to have a nice setup when it's done. Your setup is IDEAL. It's also the MOST EXPENSIVE way to do it. Most people aren't going to want to spend that much, nor are they going to have to. Let's consider how much a reliable, but less expensive 1MZ swap would be. Let's look at it from the perspective of a GT owner.

Before you go any further, keep in mind that these are all high-end prices. Don't fall out of your chair when you see how quickly quality parts add up! By reading further you hearby release 6gc.net, Dr Tweak, and their affiliates of any liability, should you fall out of your chair and land on your cat, or anything like that!

Used, low mileage (60k or less) 1MZFE engine set (OBD1, return-style fuel system) $850 HIGH END. You can score these engines CHEAP if you shop around and pull it yourself.
Flywheel for 1MZFE $250 (HIGH END)
Performance clutch kit $350 (HIGH END)
Custom passenger-side mount $150
Labor, at my shop SCC in Savannah, GA, for a FULL swap, $2000 (HIGH END)
Custom a/c and p/s lines $250 max
Custom y-pipe and FULL, CUSTOM-MADE MANDREL-BENT STAINLESS STEEL 2.5" exhaust, $950
Custom cold air intake (not required) $200
Misc items (fluids, fuel pump, filters, etc... let's add $900 to it here just to be safe $900

Right now we're up to $5900 MAX for V6 swap, including a bunch of stuff we don't HAVE TO have (like the stainless exhaust, CAI, etc). If you have an ST, you basically need to add the GT tranny, axles, and mounts, let's say another $1000 to be safe so $6900 MAX. If you have an auto, you need to add in the manual conversion parts and a little more labor, say another $600.

So, on the VERY top end of the scale here, we're right in the same range as a 3SGTE. If one really took their time shopping for parts and didn't go overboard with then that weren't really needed, then a swap could probably be done for around $4000 on the low end, including labor.

Let's do a 3SGTE swap real quick just for a good comparison (most of this is taken from my "3SGTE Swap Checklist" thread, but I'm updating some things)

Good 2nd gen 3SGTE Engine set $1500 ($1900 for a 3rd gen)
Shipping $350
Front-mount intercooler, piping, clamps, couplers $600 to $1000 depending on intercooler quality
Performance clutch kit $350
Aussie downpipe $350 shipped
Misc (Fuel pump, filters, fluids, etc) $600
Labor for swap, wiring, AND custom-install of front-mount and piping $1800
Full stainless-steel, mandrel-bent custom-built 3" exhaust system $950

Total basic 3SGTE swap into a GT $6500 to $7300

For an ST, add the GT tranny, axles, mounts, custom a/c and p/s lines, for an additional $1250 max, so total is $7750 to $8550. For an automatic, add an additional $600 for the manual conversion and parts.

Now again here folks, just like with the V6 swap we itemized, we're going HIGH end. You don't need to use the Aussie downpipe, many people opt for the cheapo-ebay one. And again, a full stainless mandrel-bent exhaust isn't required. The point is:

MOST ENGINE SWAPS WILL COST LESS THAN WHAT IS SHOWN HERE

But we want to make sure that we're comparing apples to apples. So comparing right across the board, V6 to 3SGTE, here's what we've got:

3SGTE basic swap: $6500
V6 basic swap: $5900 (difference $600)

3SGTE into ST swap: $7750
V6 into ST swap: $6900 (difference $850)

In each case, it's a good idea to do a full timing belt/reseal/tuneup of the engine right before it goes in, which typically runs about $850 for parts AND labor.

So, not really a big difference, but for the coolness of the V6 engine, plus rock-solid reliability and ease of maintenance, going the V6 route is a great idea and you STILL save a few bucks!

-Dr Tweak

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Feb 8, 2007 - 9:49 AM

[illneversellmyce...]

lots of info too busy at work i'll read again on lunch break lol


still right now the v6 looks like less horse but more realibility and cheaper

the 3s more exp and has the horse, ridden in eastern at 13 psi and love it, i know he can go higher too

so i'm at a dilemma here....it's ok i have a while to think

ok how much to turbo a v6 after the swap is complete
aight b4 people yell i'll look it up tonight , i ask too many questions lol

[snapshotgt]

This will be my last posting in this thread.

BS. Don't be angry because your swap is taking twice as long and costing twice as much because you cut me out of the deal, after all the TIME and WORK that I spent guiding you through how we would do it and finding out all the info for you (I have like 1000 emails in my inbox from you), not to mention the many phone calls I had to make to the guy you bought your engine from so that you ACTUALLY GOT IT.

^This is so distorted in many ways. I'm not angry at all, no clue how you infer that. I just presented some facts that others should know before you convince them to swap it half ass. Period. Also, business is business, I can have who I want swap my car, swap my car.

My swap is being done RIGHT, thus, collecting ALL parts takes longer, swap has taken longer. Common knowledge .. i'm not upset about it at all.

I have a problem with this quote:

For one, you're going with a FULL REBUILT 3MZ engine which had like 10k miles on it or whatever. That added a lot to the cost of your swap. Then, you were convinced that you HAVE TO use an E153 tranny, which is NOT TRUE. Let's not start this myth again. Consider the facts: There are dozens of 3SGTE swaps on this forum that are running 225 to 250 flywheel hp 3SGTEs. I've never seen a confirmed case where a near-stock 3SGTE damaged an S54 tranny. Then, consider the 4th gen 3SGTE that I swapped into easternpiro's car. He is running 260hp AT THE WHEELS, with a GT tranny, NO PROBLEMS.

1.) PLEASE DO NOT post info that you are just guessing at --> Like the cost of my rebuild. You do not have a CLUE what it cost me, so PLEASE DON'T post BS info like this.

Then, consider the 4th gen 3SGTE that I swapped into easternpiro's car. He is running 260hp AT THE WHEELS, with a GT tranny, NO PROBLEMS.

2.) Do you not call having a tranny rebuilt a "problem"? ..or any of his other tranny "issues" a problem ..or any of the other swap issues?

Quote from easternpiro1:

Well i get my car back from the shop FINALLY after getting the tranny rebiult (blocker rings were wobbling a bit and prevented me from going in reverse) a couple other things were wrong too... clutch was becoming burned out (after 3 months?) and the shifter cables were old. But anyway, im back in business until i start driving and notice that my car's acceleration ABSOLUTLEY SUCKS i look at my boost gauge and im only getting 5lbs WTF? so i call the shop back and they dont know anything about it. i call the good dr tweak and he confirms that it's what i thought: a boost leak I cant figure out where but it may be because they removed some IC piping and didnt put it back right, so back to the place i go, wish me luck!

Like i said, this is my last post. I'm not going to spend my time arguing about how to do a half ass V6 swap.

Last thought: Anyone considering doing a V6 swap -- research around the MR2 guys etc, and don't just get your info from one source .. consider the amount of money you're putting into it, and what you'll want out of of it.

This post has been edited by snapshotgt: Feb 8, 2007 - 12:59 PM

[Negative]

After reading this and looking at the facts - V6 is def not an option for me. Less HP by far unless you plan to turbo/SC and then here I am back at the FI'ing a engine that wasn't originally intended to be - again.
Sort of a waste of time - unless you are looking for a bit more HP without the boost headaches. Personally I'm addicted to boost and can't get back to Turbo quick enough for my tastes.
Seriously starting to think ST-205 swap now.

[Dr_Tweak]

This will be my last posting in this thread.

BS. Don't be angry because your swap is taking twice as long and costing twice as much because you cut me out of the deal, after all the TIME and WORK that I spent guiding you through how we would do it and finding out all the info for you (I have like 1000 emails in my inbox from you), not to mention the many phone calls I had to make to the guy you bought your engine from so that you ACTUALLY GOT IT.

^This is so distorted in many ways. I'm not angry at all, no clue how you infer that. I just presented some facts that others should know before you convince them to swap it half ass. Period. Also, business is business, I can have who I want swap my car, swap my car.

My swap is being done RIGHT, thus, collecting ALL parts takes longer, swap has taken longer. Common knowledge .. i'm not upset about it at all.

I have a problem with this quote:

For one, you're going with a FULL REBUILT 3MZ engine which had like 10k miles on it or whatever. That added a lot to the cost of your swap. Then, you were convinced that you HAVE TO use an E153 tranny, which is NOT TRUE. Let's not start this myth again. Consider the facts: There are dozens of 3SGTE swaps on this forum that are running 225 to 250 flywheel hp 3SGTEs. I've never seen a confirmed case where a near-stock 3SGTE damaged an S54 tranny. Then, consider the 4th gen 3SGTE that I swapped into easternpiro's car. He is running 260hp AT THE WHEELS, with a GT tranny, NO PROBLEMS.

1.) PLEASE DO NOT post info that you are just guessing at --> Like the cost of my rebuild. You do not have a CLUE what it cost me, so PLEASE DON'T post BS info like this.

Then, consider the 4th gen 3SGTE that I swapped into easternpiro's car. He is running 260hp AT THE WHEELS, with a GT tranny, NO PROBLEMS.

2.) Do you not call having a tranny rebuilt a "problem"? ..or any of his other tranny "issues" a problem ..or any of the other swap issues?

Quote from easternpiro1:

Well i get my car back from the shop FINALLY after getting the tranny rebiult (blocker rings were wobbling a bit and prevented me from going in reverse) a couple other things were wrong too... clutch was becoming burned out (after 3 months?) and the shifter cables were old. But anyway, im back in business until i start driving and notice that my car's acceleration ABSOLUTLEY SUCKS i look at my boost gauge and im only getting 5lbs WTF? so i call the shop back and they dont know anything about it. i call the good dr tweak and he confirms that it's what i thought: a boost leak I cant figure out where but it may be because they removed some IC piping and didnt put it back right, so back to the place i go, wish me luck!

Like i said, this is my last post. I'm not going to spend my time arguing about how to do a half ass V6 swap.

Last thought: Anyone considering doing a V6 swap -- research around the MR2 guys etc, and don't just get your info from one source .. consider the amount of money you're putting into it, and what you'll want out of of it.

Well the way that you're coming across IS angry, maybe you should look at how you came out of no where with guns blazing, in both the PM you sent me and your post.

The fact that you rebuilding your engine costed more than a used engine isn't a guess, and I do have clue. I know how much it costs to rebuild engines because I REBUILD ENGINES. So there you go.

easternpiro had to rebuild his tranny due to worn blocking rings, as he said. Blocking rings don't go bad because of horsepower, GEARS do. Now YOU'RE posting stuff that you have no clue about.

And you're REALLY one to talk about doing things half-assed. I have dozens of emails or chats from you asking if we can leave this or that part out, or not do this or not do that, or use a used part instead of a new parts, or cut this corner or that corner.

I do agree though, that anyone thinking of doing this swap should do a lot of research and talk to as many people as possible who have done it.

-Doc

[FORGMANN]

i am not going to turn this into a pickering thread just going to state a few things

Dr tweak and me disagree about how to build a swap be it 3sgte,1mz when it comes to tranny selection .. i understand the reason is cost but my reasoning for 97+ v6 manual is all the later v6 trannies as well as later model jdm mr2 turbo trannies come with beefier synchro's and mate right to a v6 with out issue and most are under 60k mileage .. now if i am going to spend 6k or even 5k why would i use a high mileage 5sfe tranny (in most cases)and risk have a problem develop only after you add a extra 100-140hp to the tranny .. will cost a lot more down the road to replace tranny then just save up and go with the solara/camry tranny or a 96+ jdm mr2 tranny .. we got a 40,000k 00' solara tranny in mint cond for $400 shipped from yard and it has all the holes to correctly mount in st205 mounts .. now dont get me wrong using this tranny will cost 800-1000 more than 5sfe but the pay off will come in the long term .. now you will need mr2 or solara rear jackshaft /all trac hybrid axles w/ mr2 dr side inner/ possible spacer on pass side and st205 cables and mounts but all this extra stuff we found for cheap and all parts are new or very new.
st205 mounts were easy to source from UK used and you only need the rear and possible top tranny mount.

My whole reasoning is this. May cost more now but will cost less in the long term .. Just because you want a fast motor dont hurry to do a swap like this without thinking ahead .. why not save a little more (plus motor will get cheaper over time) and spend money on tranny and proper parts .. if you want DR TWEAK to do swap that is great i am not saying not to just do research ..

we can debate all day on this topic .. to me it is just common sense.. i have seen time and time again people try to save money and on engine and body work end up spendng twice as much down the road or just selling car and losing a ton of money due to issues .. ..

snap didnt pay for rebuild of engine .. just for new bearings and a few other parts .. engine had 2k on it but sat so long got moisture on bearings i just rebuilt for free which is why he swap has taken longer ..

This post has been edited by FORGMANN: Feb 8, 2007 - 1:23 PM

[brianforster]

i mean the only factor you need to look at is how many satisfied customers who daily drive there swaps post on this board and others... the results speak for themselves, anyone claiming the doc doesnt do his work "the right way" is just trying to cause drama.

by the way, lagos has been putting down 230-250 WHEEL for close to like what 3 years now? as a matter of fact, ive only seen 1-2 people on this board break the s54 (non clutch related) i think the s54 is PLENTY for the v6, you know mr2oc isnt the bible, theres stupid people on every message board, infact probably more on mr2oc because theres more users. people can break things and it not have anything to do with the quality of the parts..

This post has been edited by brianforster: Feb 8, 2007 - 1:32 PM

[snapshotgt]

Edit, nvm.

This post has been edited by snapshotgt: Feb 8, 2007 - 1:52 PM

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

Jesus H, everybody.....the guy does this for a living, its what he does for a living and its pretty labor and skill intensive. Prices to have somebody do a swap ARE NOT going to be cheap as it reflects the parts and labor, its not really worth gasping over....

Costs of a swap are TOTALLY different for everyone. Theres no logical way that you can sit here at a keyboard and say, "its going to cost $4000, at least", or......"$7,000, WTF is that all about?!". I don't see the point in shoehorning the swapping segment into some price category, it just is what it is.



Let Doc do what he does. If its too much for you, then do it yourself and spend less for labor. If you don't want to to it, pay him the money and he'll make it happen. This thread, afterall, started out wondering where he was and it turns into a poo slinging contest. haha.

[illneversellmyce...]

i hear ya silver i was just trying to contact tweak at first i didin mean to stir up a hornets nest but it's bee nfun to read and i'm learning alotreal fast
everyone jsut needs to chill and lower da ego's a bit , were all here to help

This post has been edited by illneversellmycelli: Feb 8, 2007 - 2:21 PM

[lagos]

I'd estimate it to be about $1000 to $1500 cheaper than the 3SGTE. I would want the car for 4-6 weeks though to be safe.

-Doc

3SGTE basic swap: $6500
V6 basic swap: $5900 (difference $600)

see, its not any cheaper a potential 600$ savings means nothing when your spending 6grand to begin with.

This post has been edited by lagos: Feb 8, 2007 - 2:33 PM

[playr158]

you know mr2oc isnt the bible, theres stupid people on every message board, infact probably more on mr2oc because theres more users.

i disagree.....there is EASILY a greater percentage of dumb people here then over on mr2oc. Mr2oc on general has more experienced and older members then here on 6gc where is a majority of younger less experienced more or less noobs

Some people would rather spend more money and risk not knowing whats going on your car and all the potential risks that go along with having someone do the swap for you..Tweak is an aite guy even though i know i don't see eye to eye with his methods...He's had people happy with his stuff and he's had people so-so about his stuff.

Some people would rather know MORE and spend less doing it themselves insuring 100 percentage and whats going on...

its just depends who u are


This post has been edited by playr158: Feb 8, 2007 - 3:03 PM

[lagos]

you know mr2oc isnt the bible, theres stupid people on every message board, infact probably more on mr2oc because theres more users.

i disagree.....there is EASILY a greater percentage of dumb people here then over on mr2oc. Mr2oc on general has more experienced and older members then here on 6gc where is a majority of younger less experienced more or less noobs

Some people would rather spend more money and risk not knowing whats going on your car and all the potential risks that go along with having someone do the swap for you..Tweak is an aite guy even though i know i don't see eye to eye with his methods...He's had people happy with his stuff and he's had people so-so about his stuff.

Some people would rather know MORE and spend less doing it themselves insuring 100 percentage and whats going on...

its just depends who u are

well said dan. but brian also has a good point. just cause its "mr2oc" dont mean your talking to Noshoes on there. they have more then their share of n00bs on there ... (all the bov posts come to mind).

i figure my car is making somewhere around 280hp and 310tq at the crank (if im doing the math right). my s54 has never had an issue with this and ive had my car swapped for about 3yrs now.

[Dr_Tweak]

Like I said, using the E153 tranny is certainly ideal. FORGEMAN, I completely respect your point of view, and honestly, I agree. I just know that my average customer is going to be interested in saving $1000 on something that they don't HAVE TO have. When Collin came to me originally, he was on a very strict budget and was looking to save as much money as possible whereever he could, so I trimmed out whatever I thought I would trim out while still delivering a SAFE, RELIABLE swapped car.

I'm more than willing to use the E153 on any swap that anyone wants me to do, just add about $1000 to the total price. I'm just saying, you don't need to. Lagos is another perfect example.

I'd estimate it to be about $1000 to $1500 cheaper than the 3SGTE. I would want the car for 4-6 weeks though to be safe.

-Doc

3SGTE basic swap: $6500
V6 basic swap: $5900 (difference $600)

see, its not any cheaper a potential 600$ savings means nothing when your spending 6grand to begin with.

Actually if you look at the numbers again, you'll see that I said it will be around $1000 cheaper (I quoted higher there) and the difference between the two on an ST is, in fact, $850. So $150 off isn't all that bad, now is it? Still, if you read you my post you'll see that when you go high end on both swaps, I admit there is not really much of a difference in price.

you know mr2oc isnt the bible, theres stupid people on every message board, infact probably more on mr2oc because theres more users.

i disagree.....there is EASILY a greater percentage of dumb people here then over on mr2oc. Mr2oc on general has more experienced and older members then here on 6gc where is a majority of younger less experienced more or less noobs

Will a mod PLEASE remove this.

The issue here is NOT who you should have do your swap or how much labor is, or why or why not you should do the swap yourself instead of sending the job to one of the pros. Heck, on any of those swaps, labor represents a SMALL percentage of the overall price!

-Doc

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Feb 8, 2007 - 3:17 PM

[playr158]

also to note which i grant 90% of 6gc doesn't think about

is PURPOSE building...

are you going to be beating the **** outta your car?
are you going to spend time at the local strip or hang out racing?

then you are going to be better off with a E153 its proven more durable + stock lsd options

or are you a daily driver, take it easy but like to pass people

5sfe would work for you

its what fits YOUR purpose better.....not a bunch of lemmings on websites

*sorry if doc is too sensitive to the word "dumb"*

This post has been edited by playr158: Feb 8, 2007 - 3:19 PM

[lagos]

Will a mod PLEASE remove this.

i really hope you dont ask moderators to remove peoples thoughts or opinions on this site, just because you don't agree with them. it would be one thing if he said something offensive, but he didn't.

[Dr_Tweak]

I think that saying that "most of the people" on the forum that you spend your time on are "dumb" is somewhat offensive, yes. I know that on the forums that I moderate, the owners look down on the forum or it's members being referred to as "dumb" It's a minor side-point, let's not let it detract from the very interesting subject at hand.

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Feb 8, 2007 - 3:21 PM

[playr158]

I just think that saying that "most of the people" on the forum that you spend your time on are "dumb" is not a very nice statement to make.

Actually if you read what i wrote it says
"greater percentage of dumb people here then over on mr2oc"
this doesn't dictate a percentage...it could be 10% it could be 80%
so it COULD be a majority or it COULD be a minority

a) if you're going to quote someone, you better be right
b) i think reading 101 is down the hall in room 69

This post has been edited by playr158: Feb 8, 2007 - 3:24 PM

[lagos]

I think that saying that "most of the people" on the forum that you spend your time on are "dumb" is somewhat offensive, yes. I know that on the forums that I moderate, the owners look down on the forum or it's members being referred to as "dumb" It's a minor side-point, let's not let it detract from the very interesting subject at hand.

its pretty clear that what player was trying to say, is that youll find more experienced people on mr2oc then you would on here. we dont nearly have the same amount of guru's on here as they do on there. he wasn't trying to offend anyone on 6gc.


anyway, back on topic..... dang tweak, you charge a lot for your swaps

This post has been edited by lagos: Feb 8, 2007 - 3:25 PM

[Dr_Tweak]

anyway, back on topic..... dang tweak, you charge a lot for your swaps

WHAT???

[illneversellmyce...]

actually his prices are prety good i checked about 25 shops in a 3 state area around nc, and they all qouted higher and told me to buy a new car,. whatever

anyway even if i did go to those shops mostdont have toyota expertise.

unfortunatly i'm not a mecahnic , good with cars, but def couldnt do a swap so that why i have to pay someone to do it, and labor is a bitch to pay for

but hell yeah you save when you do ityourself but it usally takes hell of a lot longer...but hey its all presonal prefences lol

[Negative]

People need to stop bashing the Doc and his prices. I for one am happy we have him here speciallizing in swapping our cars. Keep this up and he may go elsewhere and as the post above proves - not everyone is capable of swapping themselves.

[Dr_Tweak]

It's all good guys, I'm 99% sure that Lagos was just kidding around.

-Doc

[presure2]

lets break this down systematicly.
#1:
if you dont like Tweeks prices, or methods, find someone else to do it, or DO IT YOURSELF.
he charges what HE believes to be a fair price for HIS services. simple. dont like it? move on.
#2:
the S54 tranny, in decent condition, WILL without a doubt, hold a V6 swaps power/ torque.
i've smashed thru the gears COUNTLESS times, with 235+whp and 275+FT lbs, with NO issues, for almost 2 yrs now.
the e153 is a better choice, if you have the $$ to do so, and feel the need for the longer gears, (and LSD in some cases) but its definetly not "necessary" to do a 3s OR V6 swap.
doc, i dont think dan meant what he said as an "insult" to the other members...he could have worded it better, without a doubt, but, i knew what he meant by it, and im pretty sure the other members in this discussion that frequent mr2oc agree.
lets try and keep this all civil.

[easternpiro1]

jeez! this thread got thick quick!!! (its been boring around here lately) pressure, how much longer do you mean when comparing the tranny's? i know when i shift in mine the gears are VERY short, what is the major difference between an e153? and a gt tranny?

[celicast3sgte]

my personal reason for wanting an e153 is for the LSD optioned trannies only so i can check traction loss off my list for another 50-60hp ish. required is too strong of a statement for a standard 3s/v6 swap. we can all agree on that atleast?

stop complaining about prices. like pressure2 stated. if you dont like the cost MOVE ON! I did just that, swapped myself and decided against the stock ecu all together. my choices made my swap more in tune to what i want out of my car.

keep up the info, keep down the bashing and droning on about NooBs, Newbs, noobies....etc i personally and VERY!!! sick of hearin about it.

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

keep up the info, keep down the bashing and droning on about NooBs, Newbs, noobies....etc i personally and VERY!!! sick of hearin about it.

if you dont like Tweeks prices, or methods, find someone else to do it, or DO IT YOURSELF.
he charges what HE believes to be a fair price for HIS services. simple. dont like it? move on.

Thank you both....less bs, more booooost.

I get tired of 6gc when I see senseless bickering.

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

Let me add however, I think the S54 is a great transmission. It definately gets the job done well in stock form and provides some nice quick gears to enjoy the high RPM's of the 3SGTE.

I personally wouldn't use one on a V6 swap however, my reason being that the S54 is much better designed for a 4 cylinder with a broad RPM band, not so much a torquey V6 with a more conservitive RPM range and more narrow powerband. I just can't imagine cruising at 80mph with a fresh new V6 swap on the highway, and my RPMs are already at 4,000 RPMs with my S54.....anything above that in any gear and you'll slowly say goodbye to alot of the motors inherently present torque and power that you can take advantage of with the optimized lower ratios of the E153. It was, afterall, engineered by Toyota FOR the motor to bring out the best efficiency and power......the Camry and Solara E153's use a longer final drive, albeit the same gear ratios, as the MR2's E153 to further assist all that V6-y goodness to come into play. The V6 isn't such a rev=HP sort of motor like the 4AGE/3SGE/3SGTE family of engines.

Will the S54 work? Of course.
Will the E153 work? Certainly does.

But when it comes down to it, I think each trans is better suited for certain applications, in my opinion. I'd bet money that you'd feel alot more torque steer issues using an S54 as well, its just the way a V6 would respond to such short gearing and a low-RPM torque curve.

This is just my opinion, feel free to express your thoughts.

[Dr_Tweak]

Keep in mind during this discussion that you can indeed get an LSD for the S54, and considering that the stock LSD in the E153 is designed for a rear wheel drive car, and they are VERY hard to find in good condition, installing an aftermarket LSD into your S54 is a great option to have.

I would be nice to have a longer final drive though!

-Doc

[Negative]

That being said - how much for the s54 LSD?
-and-
Couldn't you just change the 5th gear from e153 to s54? If so how much parts wise would we be looking at for that.
The reason I ask is I personally like my 1-4th gears but 5th sux bad. I already get incredible highway mileage - imagine with a longer 5th?!?

[Punisher]

Keep in mind during this discussion that you can indeed get an LSD for the S54, and considering that the stock LSD in the E153 is designed for a rear wheel drive car, and they are VERY hard to find in good condition, installing an aftermarket LSD into your S54 is a great option to have.

I would be nice to have a longer final drive though!

-Doc

Um.. personally if you are doing an e153 swap you'd be better off getting an aftermarket LSD.. After you find yourself a good toyota LSD.. get MR2 inner stubs.. well **** you just bought yourself a new aftermarket LSD of your choice and matching axles.

I'm going to have to keep my hard assed approach on the s54 as well.. it's ass ass ass ass ass ass ass.. Learn how to drive with a real transmission in your car.. not that damn go-kart 5spd.

That being said - how much for the s54 LSD?
-and-
Couldn't you just change the 5th gear from e153 to s54? If so how much parts wise would we be looking at for that.
The reason I ask is I personally like my 1-4th gears but 5th sux bad. I already get incredible highway mileage - imagine with a longer 5th?!?

No. You'd have to get custom gears made. Or find a junk yard selling an e153 from a solara/camry for 400 dollars!

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

S54 LSD's are-out-of-this-world expensive, you'd have to source one from Japan out of an SSIII or the like, and then make sure everything in the differential is identical between JDM and USDM S54 variants.

That would solve some of the traction issues, but at the end of the day its still the same gearing. I suppose it depends on what you would want out of your setup.

[Negative]

That's the thing. I prefer the gearing [1st-4th] of the s54 but I want LSD. A longer 5th would just be gravy.

[Punisher]

That's the thing. I prefer the gearing [1st-4th] of the s54 but I want LSD. A longer 5th would just be gravy.

Ya well you will never get what you want out of the S54.. so just man up and get an E153 w/ LSD and stop playing in the sand box.

[celicast3sgte]

^^^ man up? he was stating the simple fact he wishes for the s54 gear ratios (1-4) and a longer 5th of the e153 and LSD optioned. wishful thinking does not mean he needs to "man up". its like you saying i wish i could date a jessica alba/eva mendes and him telling you no way in hell. time to man up! ... i mean honestly.

[lagos]

lol. this thread is pretty funny.

to me it boils down to this:

want to save money and have the fastest possible gearing? s54
want to spend more money and have LSD and longer gearing ? e153

a v6 swap will probably only put down about 180hp/tq at the wheels. at that power level, your traction will be just fine, and any torque steer will be minimal at best and very easy to control.

while LSD is nice to have, it will NOT take away your traction problems in a high hp/tq fwd car. the only thing LSD does is minimize torque steer. this might help a little with traction, it will not give you the performance you would get from an awd or rwd car.

[Dr_Tweak]

S54 LSD's are-out-of-this-world expensive, you'd have to source one from Japan out of an SSIII or the like, and then make sure everything in the differential is identical between JDM and USDM S54 variants.

That would solve some of the traction issues, but at the end of the day its still the same gearing. I suppose it depends on what you would want out of your setup.

That's not true, actually a number of companies make LSDs for the S54. However, ALL aftermarket LSD units are expensive.

while LSD is nice to have, it will NOT take away your traction problems in a high hp/tq fwd car. the only thing LSD does is minimize torque steer. this might help a little with traction, it will not give you the performance you would get from an awd or rwd car.

Actually you have that backwards. An ATB (autmatic torque biasing) differential, which is the type of LSD that you want to use in a FWD car (like the Quaife) will increase traction to a HUGE degree because it will automatically send power to the wheel which has the most traction. However, since the wheel with the MOST traction is getting power instead of the other way around, torque steer increases quite a bit! With a nice ATB LSD like the Quaife, when you step on the gas with a high power engine under the hood, you seriously need to HOLD ON TO THAT STEERING WHEEL!

An LSD WILL help take away your traction problems, but it will also INCREASE torque steer.

-Doc

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Feb 9, 2007 - 10:43 PM

[lagos]

An LSD WILL help take away your traction problems, but it will also INCREASE torque steer.

huh? the whole idea behind an LSD is to attempt to evenly send the power to both wheels and reduce torque steer.

when you step on the gas with a high power engine under the hood, you seriously need to HOLD ON TO THAT STEERING WHEEL! smile.gif

yeah, thats how my car is now, because it lacks an LSD. so the power delivery is uneven, creating torque steer. .

This post has been edited by lagos: Feb 9, 2007 - 10:58 PM

[Dr_Tweak]

Nope. Drive a high powered FWD car with a nice LSD and you'll see what I mean. An LSD does NOT distribute power evenly to both wheels! It transfers power from a wheel that is slipping to the other wheel that has traction. When one wheel has more traction than the other, that wheel attemps to "leap ahead" of the other one, which in turn yanks your steering wheel. It's the exact same (but opposite) situation as when you bleed one of your front brakes and not the other side, the one that has air in it gets less braking effort, when you step on the brake, the steering wheel yanks toward the one that is slowing you down.

-Doc

[lagos]

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_slip_differential

Geared Torque-Sensitive Diff

Geared, torque-sensitive mechanical limited slip differentials utilize worm gears to "sense" torque on one shaft. The most famous versions are:

* Torsen differential invented by Vernon Gleasman in 1958, then sold to Gleason Corporation, who started marketing it in 1982;
* Quaife differential, sold under the name Automatic Torque Biasing Differential (ATB), covered by European Patent No. 130806A2.

Geared LSDs are less prone to wear than the clutch type, but both output shafts have to be loaded to keep the proper torque distribution characteristics. Once an output shaft becomes free (e.g. one driven wheel lifts off the ground; or a summer tyre comes over ice while another is on dry tarmac when the car goes uphill), no torque is transmitted to the second shaft and the torque-sensitive diff behaves like an open diff.

Geared LSDs are dependent on the torque and not on the speed difference between the output shafts. Such differentials may be acceptable on dry pavement, but are not adequate on slippery surface[3].

Geared LSDs may be used:

* to reduce torque steer in front-wheel drive vehicles;
* as a center diff in four-wheel drive (e.g. on Audi Quattro);
* in rear-wheel drive vehicles, to maximize traction and/or make power oversteer easier to manage (e.g. in Drifting).

This post has been edited by lagos: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:22 PM

[Dr_Tweak]

That's wonderful that you know how to read, but someday you should TRY DRIVING ONE YOURSELF INSTEAD OF POSTING THINGS YOU'VE READ.

Carry on chaps

[lagos]

That's wonderful that you know how to read, but someday you should TRY DRIVING ONE YOURSELF INSTEAD OF POSTING THINGS YOU'VE READ.

Carry on chaps

and what do you drive on a daily basis? i think i have more first hand experience with a high hp/tq fwd car then you do.


another link...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque_steer

"Ways to reduce the effect of torque steer
# Distribute the torque better between the driveshafts. Automobile transmission manufacturers like Quaife, Torsen, TrueTrac, Gold Trac offer worm-gear-based torque-biasing limited slip differentials for front-wheel drive vehicles, which help to reduce the amount of torque steer[6][7] and improve cornering. "

[Dr_Tweak]

Quaife differentials are huge among SHO enthusiasts. Here's some interesting reading for you, since you base most of your opinions on what you read on the internet.

http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=67691
http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=56297
http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=2820
http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=56397

Here are some copies of these FIRST HAND accounts from people who OWN cars that have a quaife differential:

"Love the quaife .... it produces some torque steer under full throttle in 1st and 2nd ...... but the increased traction is worth it. Especially good accelerating out of a turn. The inside wheelspin issues are gone."

"since having my quaife installed it pulls to the right under acceleration. Is this a normal trait of the quaife?? it is NOT the alignment." -BlackonBlack89

"my car has a lot more torque steer with the quaife, but it accelerates much better through and out of turns ...... it also is faster off the line, but i have to be carefull ...... it wants to change lanes sometimes under hard acceleration" -bobreimer

"I find the large steering wheel to be very easy to over compensate, when correcting for the Quaife's torque steer, and I used to find myself swerving all over the road trying to keep my SHO going in a straight line. With the smaller steering wheel, it is 90 percent easier and more controlable to throw the SHO around and aim it were you really eant it to go." -rktmn

"I have blown two trannys so far and the Quaife survived each time. IMHO Quaife is one of the best three mods I have done to the car. You do feel a little more torque steer in first and second. -jedhead

"My buddy has an SVT Contour and after he installed a Quaife it actually feels worse from a torque steer perspective.

Like before 1 wheel would slip so it wasn't pulling that bad except on the 1-2 shift. But now both wheels are pulling like crazy and it's quite the handful getting off the line." -68style

"Yes, you can get a quaife, but it really won't help your torque steer problem." -noSHO

"no quaife noise here, just helluva lot of torque steer, lol" -ShadetreeSHOguy

In that case, the only downside to a Quaife is the increase in torque steer. It will improve your SHO in every other way. -K-Dawg

"The Quaife DOES increase torque steer... I don't know why people think otherwise. Think about it, you know have something that transfers power to the wheel with the most traction. Soon as one wheel gets traction, it will pull with it." -yamahaSHO

"The quaife will completely change the way the car handles when you are cornering and on the power. It will pull a much tighter line (tighter, in fact, than lift-throttle cornering) and feel much more predictable and stable.

The quaife can increase torque steer under certain conditions, but in normal driving it operates without any hint of what it is doing.

As Jason said, a smaller-diameter wheel would decrease the amount of leverage you have over the rack, and cause a distinct increase in the amount of torque steer." -AutoSHO

It goes on and on I will admit, however, that like you I was once misinformed about the whole torque steer issue and also thought that an LSD would help alleviate that. Years later, I know otherwise, and now you do too. If you don't beleive it, just try it sometime.

-Doc

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:50 PM

[lagos]

since you base most of your opinions on what you read on the internet.

excuse me?

[Punisher]

Dr. Tweak is partially right.. I have noticed an apparent torque steer.. but.. however for me it goes in both directions.. not just to the left. When I get on the throttle in a low gear like 2/3rd.. The front end has a tendency to go all over the road.. to the left.. the right.. the steering gets real loose and flighty.. heh. I'm starting to wonder if I don't have a locking diff though over a limited slip. Reasons being is when I turn a wheel the other turns in the same direction.. even when I just had axles in the trans.. um another thing is if I turn the wheel while stopped to make a hard turn.. I'm not talking about full lock either.. just anything more than a slight turn of the wheel.. I'll need to slip the clutch a lot more or else the front end bucks around and gives me trouble.. and I've checked into every possible reason for it and found nothing.. other than the idea that i may actually have a locking diff.. would explain it.. differential isn't slipping.. so I have one wheel pulling more in the turn than the other wheel..

Another thing to add is the handling is much much better.. if I'm going through a tight turn.. instead of slowing down to hold traction I give it some gas.. that front end just sucks me through the turn.. and I've taken some wicked hard turns intentionally trying to get the car to slide out and no dice..

Oh and I'd consider myself to have a high power FWD vehicle.. dyno at 287whp at just over 290ft/lb.. if only I had some fuel upgrades.. I'd be well over 300 ah well.. this can be scary enough.. can't say how many times I've nearly crashed because of the steering getting all loose and pulling all over the road.

This post has been edited by Punisher: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41 PM

[lagos]

punisher, an LSD will REDUCE the effect of torque steer, but it will not totally eliminate it. we will have to go for a ride in each others cars one day and compare them side by side. im willing to bet that your tq steer is nowhere near as bad as mine. if i really get on it in 2nd gear, i have to be very careful not to end up in the lane next to me because of all the TQ steer going on and the car pulling the wheel side to side.

[Punisher]

^^^ man up? he was stating the simple fact he wishes for the s54 gear ratios (1-4) and a longer 5th of the e153 and LSD optioned. wishful thinking does not mean he needs to "man up". its like you saying i wish i could date a jessica alba/eva mendes and him telling you no way in hell. time to man up! ... i mean honestly.

I didn't mean anything as a bash on someones dreams.. but he asked if it was possible.. and I answered him pretty simply.. no. Also when you start putting down some good HP.. you won't want that s54 anymore.. unless you like to shift a lot.. A lot of people think the S54 will be fine with their swap.. and for some maybe so. But after you drive an E153 swap.. specially one with a LSD .. you'll be a believer. I don't have to shift constantly either.. I can just drive and pay attention to that instead of having to constantly shift.. If I'm racing.. I won't even have to get out of 3rd gear .. By 7K I'll be knocking on a 100mph.. On the dyno I was doing a 140mph in 4th at 7K rpm.

punisher, an LSD will REDUCE the effect of torque steer, but it will not totally eliminate it. we will have to go for a ride in each others cars one day and compare them side by side. im willing to bet that your tq steer is nowhere near as bad as mine. if i really get on it in 2nd gear, i have to be very careful not to end up in the lane next to me because of all the TQ steer going on and the car pulling the wheel side to side.

You'll **** enough bricks to build a house when you drive my car and bunch it in 2nd/3rd.. You talk about the next lane to the left.. I'm talkin about the next lane to the left.. or the right. I almost went into a median on the highway cuz I punched it in third and up around 6K I ended up hitting a bump on the highway .. a transition from a bridge back to the road and the steering whipped off to the left... then I corrected and it snapped back to the right.. the steering gets soooo damn sensitive. It's not torque steer like you know it.. that's why I said tweak is right in a sense..

[Dr_Tweak]

Dr. Tweak is partially right.. I have noticed an apparent torque steer.. but.. however for me it goes in both directions.. not just to the left. When I get on the throttle in a low gear like 2/3rd.. The front end has a tendency to go all over the road.. to the left.. the right.. the steering gets real loose and flighty.. heh. I'm starting to wonder if I don't have a locking diff though over a limited slip. Reasons being is when I turn a wheel the other turns in the same direction.. even when I just had axles in the trans.. um another thing is if I turn the wheel while stopped to make a hard turn.. I'm not talking about full lock either.. just anything more than a slight turn of the wheel.. I'll need to slip the clutch a lot more or else the front end bucks around and gives me trouble.. and I've checked into every possible reason for it and found nothing.. other than the idea that i may actually have a locking diff.. would explain it.. differential isn't slipping.. so I have one wheel pulling more in the turn than the other wheel..

Another thing to add is the handling is much much better.. if I'm going through a tight turn.. instead of slowing down to hold traction I give it some gas.. that front end just sucks me through the turn.. and I've taken some wicked hard turns intentionally trying to get the car to slide out and no dice..

Oh and I'd consider myself to have a high power FWD vehicle.. dyno at 287whp at just over 290ft/lb.. if only I had some fuel upgrades.. I'd be well over 300 ah well.. this can be scary enough.. can't say how many times I've nearly crashed because of the steering getting all loose and pulling all over the road.

I'll bet you have an E153 with the MR2 LSD, don't you?

[Punisher]

Dr. Tweak is partially right.. I have noticed an apparent torque steer.. but.. however for me it goes in both directions.. not just to the left. When I get on the throttle in a low gear like 2/3rd.. The front end has a tendency to go all over the road.. to the left.. the right.. the steering gets real loose and flighty.. heh. I'm starting to wonder if I don't have a locking diff though over a limited slip. Reasons being is when I turn a wheel the other turns in the same direction.. even when I just had axles in the trans.. um another thing is if I turn the wheel while stopped to make a hard turn.. I'm not talking about full lock either.. just anything more than a slight turn of the wheel.. I'll need to slip the clutch a lot more or else the front end bucks around and gives me trouble.. and I've checked into every possible reason for it and found nothing.. other than the idea that i may actually have a locking diff.. would explain it.. differential isn't slipping.. so I have one wheel pulling more in the turn than the other wheel..

Another thing to add is the handling is much much better.. if I'm going through a tight turn.. instead of slowing down to hold traction I give it some gas.. that front end just sucks me through the turn.. and I've taken some wicked hard turns intentionally trying to get the car to slide out and no dice..

Oh and I'd consider myself to have a high power FWD vehicle.. dyno at 287whp at just over 290ft/lb.. if only I had some fuel upgrades.. I'd be well over 300 ah well.. this can be scary enough.. can't say how many times I've nearly crashed because of the steering getting all loose and pulling all over the road.

I'll bet you have an E153 with the MR2 LSD, don't you?

I'll bet that you are right. 95 JDM MR2 LSD.. was odd.. I had to trim ugh.. I forget how much exactly.. 1/8" or 1/4"... off of the driver side inner stub for the snap ring to lock into the differential.. On the inside of the diff there is no bar either.. it's a solid wall with one.. probably 1/4" hole in the center of it.

This post has been edited by Punisher: Feb 10, 2007 - 12:01 AM

[lagos]

You'll **** enough bricks to build a house when you drive my car and bunch it in 2nd/3rd..

lol, dont worry, im used to it.

[snapshotgt]

edited.

This post has been edited by snapshotgt: Feb 10, 2007 - 1:26 AM

[Dr_Tweak]

That's what I've been saying, the LSD is in the MR2 tranny is FOR A RWD CAR! LOL

It's not designed for a FWD which is why it acts like it's locking up on you and whatnot. This is why I don't recommend using the MR2's LSD with 3SGTE swaps in Celicas.

A v6 swap will probably only put down about 180hp/tq at the wheels.

So you're speculating that the loss to the wheels will be 45+ hp? That does not sound right to me at all.

The typical 1MZ makes 190 to 200hp, so 180 WHP is about right.

You'll obviously be making a little more (about 190 whp) because you have a 3MZ.

-Doc

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Feb 10, 2007 - 12:03 AM

[snapshotgt]

edited.

This post has been edited by snapshotgt: Feb 10, 2007 - 1:25 AM

[Punisher]

That's what I've been saying, the LSD is in the MR2 tranny is FOR A RWD CAR! LOL

It's not designed for a FWD which is why it acts like it's locking up on you and whatnot. This is why I don't recommend using the MR2's LSD with 3SGTE swaps in Celicas.

A v6 swap will probably only put down about 180hp/tq at the wheels.

So you're speculating that the loss to the wheels will be 45+ hp? That does not sound right to me at all.

The typical 1MZ makes 190 to 200hp, so 180 WHP is about right.

You'll obviously be making a little more (about 190 whp) because you have a 3MZ.

-Doc

Hah.. you don't have to tell me this.. I was figuring that myself lately... mmm.. rwd mid engine car.. LSD designed for that.. Mmmmm.. Oh well.. it isn't a big issue I don't really care.. I've come to accept that it's one of the quirks with using this LSD.. and it's not some big issue that hurts the function of the car or transmission.

[Dr_Tweak]

Yeah, I imagine that it works okay for traction, but now here's a real-life example of why I don't use the MR2 LSD E153.

Now an E153 from a Camry or MR2 converted to FWD, with an ATB differential, that would be the best!

Right Collin?

-Doc

*edit*

I've just realized, we've covered a lot of good info in this thread!

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Feb 10, 2007 - 12:17 AM

[Punisher]

I'm using a 99 camry e153. If I was to do it over again I would go with an aftermarket LSD.. by the time u find/buy a stock LSD.. get axles for it... you've already paid for a good quality aftermarket LSD and maybe even axles

[Dr_Tweak]

I'm using a 99 camry e153. If I was to do it over again I would go with an aftermarket LSD.. by the time u find/buy a stock LSD.. get axles for it... you've already paid for a good quality aftermarket LSD and maybe even axles

Oh, and you swapped in the LSD unit from an MR2? I gotcha. Well, the point made it still the same, like you said, may just as well have gone with a nice aftermarket unit in the first place.

-Doc

[Punisher]

I'm using a 99 camry e153. If I was to do it over again I would go with an aftermarket LSD.. by the time u find/buy a stock LSD.. get axles for it... you've already paid for a good quality aftermarket LSD and maybe even axles

Oh, and you swapped in the LSD unit from an MR2? I gotcha. Well, the point made it still the same, like you said, may just as well have gone with a nice aftermarket unit in the first place.

-Doc

Indeed.. HOWEVER.. I paid 400 shipped for the lsd.. 400 for the inner stubs.. so I got a pretty good deal.. I wouldn't pay more than 400 for the vlsd. The VLSD is also a bit easier to setup as usually you can just drop it into the trans w/o worrying about diff shim adjustment... But setting the shim up on the diff isn't very difficult to do anyway.. just need a good micro-torque wrench.

[easternpiro1]

wow, you guys answered my question and more!

I LOVE THIS SITE!!!



This post has been edited by easternpiro1: Feb 10, 2007 - 12:47 AM

[Fate]

although at times this thread got heated- lots of things can be learned from this thread alone. not a bad read at all, on all ends.

[laff09]

although at times this thread got heated- lots of things can be learned from this thread alone. not a bad read at all, on all ends.

x2