Engine Keeps Cutting Off, pissed off & broke Options

[Jen]

I've had a problem with my car for the past month, and nothing we have had done seems to work.

The problem:
- Very low, and rough idle.
- Stalling.
- The engine cuts out no matter if I am stopped at a redlight, or if I am accelerating.

It can be fine one day, but terrible the next. If it cuts off, I can wait a few minutes and it comes back on. If I let it sit for 30+ minutes, it will work for the rest of the day and possibly the next. When it cuts off it's very random, and it forces me to not go to work, or I am late to work. I'm about to lose my job.

Things I have had done:
- I've had the injectors cleaned or something.
- New fuel pump.
- Replaced PVC Valve.
- Replaced IAC Valve.

Things it's not:
- The battery, or connections.
- The alternator, or connections.

Now they're telling me the distributer. Any other ideas? Discuss.

I totally put this in the wrong section, could one of the mods please move it?

This post has been edited by Jen: Apr 28, 2007 - 4:31 PM

[Jen]

Another theory:
Something is in the gas tank.

[mikeismad0408]

something could be in the gas tank...sorry im illiterate some days

This post has been edited by mikeismad0408: Apr 28, 2007 - 5:10 PM

[Jen]

something could be in the gas tank, it sounds like maybe your fuel pump is having issues. you may try replacing that.

Things I have had done:
- I've had the injectors cleaned or something.
- New fuel pump.
- Replaced PVC Valve.
- Replaced IAC Valve.

[Jen]

BUMP. Please help.

[playr158]

hrm small things i might replace would be things like
plugs, rotor & cap, too bad you have a GT or i'd send u a distributor

[Jen]

hrm small things i might replace would be things like
plugs, rotor & cap, too bad you have a GT or i'd send u a distributor

All of the was changed not too long ago.

[Bitter]

sounds like one of the most dreaded problems ever...an intermittent short or overheating component. is there any commonality to when the problem occurs?

[Hanyo]

does your car idle real bad? Like the steering wheel shakes and the entire car vibrates?


I dont think its something wrong with your engine. I suspect it to be something wrong with your automatic transmission.

when was the last time your transmission fluid was change and the filter was replaced?

[Jen]

sounds like one of the most dreaded problems ever...an intermittent short or overheating component. is there any commonality to when the problem occurs?

Nope, it's always very random.

does your car idle real bad? Like the steering wheel shakes and the entire car vibrates?

I dont think its something wrong with your engine. I suspect it to be something wrong with your automatic transmission.

when was the last time your transmission fluid was change and the filter was replaced?

I really have no idea. I'll check on that.

[Remy]

I know you have a new fuel pump but what about the fuel filter ?? I know you get bad idle and stalls out if you have a bad one.....

[Jen]

I know you have a new fuel pump but what about the fuel filter ?? I know you get bad idle and stalls out if you have a bad one.....

Yup.

[stephen_lee]

check all of your vacuum hoses. ESPECIALLY the hose && electrical connector on your vacuum sensor. if you want, i could get you a pic of it tomorrow. i know when i unplugged mine, my car would do something similar to what yours is doing.

[My2Celi]

I'm thinking like what he said. Could be your vacuum hose. This happen to me before when I let a shop work on my car a couple of years back. They redo some of my vacuum hose due to needing to remove the air box. Take a pix of your engine bay if possible.

[lagos]

vac leak. start the engine a look for loose or cracked hoses. you should head a hissing from where the problem is.

[Jen]

If it was a vac leak, wouldn't the mechanic know it? I've taken it up there 5 times...

[lagos]

sadly, most mechanics arent too smart when it comes to simple stuff like that. pop your hood and take a look around.

[bindertch]

Are you getting any check engine codes? My sources tell me to check the EGR to make sure it isn't stuck open. Also if it is a loose connection you could try to wiggle the wiring harness around the components while the engine is running. The main sensors that I would check would be your crank position and cam position ( cam position is inside the distrubutor requiring the full replacement). A way to free up a stuck egr valve is to lightly tap on it and see if it clears up the rough running condition. If the egr is stuck open it will cause almost all of your symtoms.

This post has been edited by bindertch: Apr 29, 2007 - 7:00 PM

[Hanyo]

this is a strange problem because: 1) the engine stalls under acceleration, 2) engine stalls when it is warm. 3) engine will not work right after stalling, but giving it time will let the engine work again.

So it can also be: these two problems. Since i don't own a GT. i dont know if the 5sfe has these sensor/ switches:

The Auto Shutdown Relay (ASD) - actually, this rarely breaks, but when it does, the engine stays off. One purpose of the auto shutdown relay is to avoid "dieselling." It kills all fuel delivery and spark. The ASD can be triggered by a broken wire or short in another place -e.g. the fuel pump.


The MAP sensor - another relatively frequent cause of stalling. This measures the air pressure in the manifold. It is usually mounted on a fender, costs around $25, and is very easy to replace. You can test it - if your car won't start, just unplug the electrical connection from the MAP sensor.

[bindertch]

The MAP sensor will make it run rough but it would stumble bad anything above idle but it would idle.

[Jen]

yes, engine codes. all of them said the distributor. but they've ran a diagnostic before (three/four times) and it was always very different.

unfortunately i do not have my car at the moment. it's still at the shop getting looked at. they keep saying it's the distributor. because they this is the fifth time i've taken it up there, i'm only going to be paying for the part. but the part is expensive. i'm so frustrated.

it's only at the shop because it broke down saturday, and i called them cussing at them and screaming. so they towed it for free.

if/when i get it back, my friend and i are going to check it out. i'm trying to get a new car but i just spent close to $1000 getting my car fixed with things that weren't even the problem in the first place.

[lagos]

if thats what th codes say, then thats what it is. you can get a use distributor from someone on here for much cheaper.

[ecaddiction]

Maybe take it to a different shop? Which shop in Jacksonville?

[Jen]

if thats what th codes say, then thats what it is. you can get a use distributor from someone on here for much cheaper.

yes. but we've gotten different codes before. none of them said distributor. i got one cheap already.

Maybe take it to a different shop? Which shop in Jacksonville?

i will if it doesn't work after this time. goodyear on san jose in mandarin.

[hurley97]

have they checked the timing?

I'm not sure how different it is but at work we had a Mazda Protege come in with a similar problem, his timing had jumped and was a few degrees off. our mechanic reset it and its fine.

[Jeremiah]

I'm not sure how you all handle your mechanics, but my attitude is this:
If you didn't fix the problem, I'm sure as HELL not paying for the 'fix'.

[DrAg1n320]

Hey, hopefully i'm not to late, if your vehicle is stalling roughly 30mins-60mins after running, and stalls after it's been warm for a while and then wait till it cools and starts up again, then it's most likely your PRIMARY COIL it's called, and the codes you just got about the distributor is related to that. but the primary coil shouldn't be expensive?, at most it should b like 50-80 dollars. and i will garuntee you that's the problem. and yes, most mechanics are dumb.......

[alltracman78]

It could be the coil.
Which is in your dist.
I don't know if it's available separately or not.

vac leak. start the engine a look for loose or cracked hoses. you should head a hissing from where the problem is.

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO

I don't know how many times I've posted this on different forums.
For some reason 3SGTE folks have this misconception that since it works this way on their engine it will work this way on all engines.
Engines control systems are NOT THE SAME on all engines.
A pressure based system [MAP sensored] WILL NOT, NEVER, WON'T, CAN'T die if it has a vaccum leak. The idle will RAISE. The ONLY time it will die is if the actual vaccum hose to the MAP sensor is disconnected [that DOESN'T mean a crack in the hose, ONLY completely disconnected].
Only on flow based systems [MAF/AFM] will the engine run worse/die if it has a vaccum leak.

sadly, most mechanics arent too smart when it comes to simple stuff like that. pop your hood and take a look around.

hm........

Are you getting any check engine codes? My sources tell me to check the EGR to make sure it isn't stuck open. Also if it is a loose connection you could try to wiggle the wiring harness around the components while the engine is running. The main sensors that I would check would be your crank position and cam position ( cam position is inside the distrubutor requiring the full replacement). A way to free up a stuck egr valve is to lightly tap on it and see if it clears up the rough running condition. If the egr is stuck open it will cause almost all of your symtoms.

Just for reference, the 95 older don't have a crank sensor, only a cam sensor.
96^ has the crank sensor.

Jen, for reference, or if this isn't fixed, there is a more sensitive diagnostic mode you can put the ECU into.

Jump TE2 [NOT TE1, TE2] and E1 [you have to do this with the key OUT of the ignition, if it's in, it won't work].
Drive the car around until you have the problem.
Jump TE1 and E1 to read the code.
I don't know if it will pick up a bad coil or not, but it will pick up loose connections and such.

What was the code[s] that you got?

[Bitter]

funny thing is...even if you pull the hose from the sensor the engine will still run, just very poorly. i knocked mine loose once, but got it fixed before i drove anywhere.

[alltracman78]

It might run sometimes, but normally the engine will just die.

[Jen]

not working still. i told you that the engine code thing didn't work. i've been carless for over a month now. i hate this.

[lagos]

wait... you took the car to goodyear? a place that normally just does oil changes and tuneups is going to be really horrible at diagnosing this type of stuff. you should take the car to toyota and ask them to JUST do a diagnosis. normally its about 50-90bucks. they will tell you what the problem is and then you can decide if you want them to fix it or have a friend help you with it.

[supradog1]

not working still. i told you that the engine code thing didn't work. i've been carless for over a month now. i hate this.

that doze suck!!! you know, i can talk with my bf and see if he can help you if you like??? he is a super car WIZZZZZZZZZZ!!!! he engineers porsche gt2 cup & alms cars for a living, im sure he could figure out your celica's problem!!!
just pm me and LMK if you want our help!!!

This post has been edited by supradog1: May 9, 2007 - 11:51 PM

[Jen]

okay, no longer at goodyear. took it to the dealership. i've had 6 diagnosis'. all of them said 6 different things. 2 of these were at the dealership. many things were fixed, and things have not been fixed. at this point, i refused to pay for anything until my car was fixed and will run for more than 5 minutes.

btw. i really appreciate the encouragement.

[lagos]

well, we are trying to help but your not giving us a lot of info to go on... can you post in detail of what they thought the problem was and what they replaced the first few times? and what exactly did ALL of your ecu codes say?

This post has been edited by lagos: May 10, 2007 - 12:10 AM

[Jen]

1) Fuel injectors
2) Fuel pump
3) PVC valve
4) IAC valve
5) Distributor

This last diagnosis has showed NOTHING WRONG with my car. It stumbles, sputters, and does not, at all stay running. It gets worse by the day. It used to only do this very rarely. Then it was once a week, then it was once a day, now it won't stay running for 5 minutes. It is very difficult to get it started. We can try cranking it for 30 minutes, and it will just randomly start out of nowhere. Whether we let it sit or not.

[Delta_Phoenix]

Seeing that you've had most of the diagnostic problems fixed, I'm suspecting the distributor.

That, or whoever replaced your fuel pump dropped their ratchet into your tank. But I don't think that's gonna show up on your diagnostics.

Does the car seem weak at all when it does run? I managed to get water into one of my spark plug wells some time ago, ruining my #3 plug wire, and making the car run like a go-cart. I never got a CEL, but it could be worth a look.

[lagos]

1) Fuel injectors
2) Fuel pump
3) PVC valve
4) IAC valve
5) Distributor

This last diagnosis has showed NOTHING WRONG with my car. It stumbles, sputters, and does not, at all stay running. It gets worse by the day. It used to only do this very rarely. Then it was once a week, then it was once a day, now it won't stay running for 5 minutes. It is very difficult to get it started. We can try cranking it for 30 minutes, and it will just randomly start out of nowhere. Whether we let it sit or not.

out of all of those things, what did they replace so far?

[WALKER]

This may sound dumb, but has all this been on the same tank of gas and has the weather been hot? If so, could it be air lock? Try opening up your gas cap to let some of the pressure off.

[lagos]

This may sound dumb, but has all this been on the same tank of gas and has the weather been hot? If so, could it be air lock? Try opening up your gas cap to let some of the pressure off.

lol no.

the more i read about it, the more it sounds like a fuel pump thats on its way out.

[Jen]

All of that has been replaced.

Does the car seem weak at all when it does run? I managed to get water into one of my spark plug wells some time ago, ruining my #3 plug wire, and making the car run like a go-cart. I never got a CEL, but it could be worth a look.

No.

[Jen]

bump.

[Kwanza26]

Sounds like a fuel problem... or lack thereof. Did you check the fuel filter yet? Easy way to do this is to unbolt the top bolt on the fuel filter then crank the car (so the fuel pump fires). If you have fuel spray... then there's something else wrong. If not... then it's probably your fuel filter... assuming your new fuel pump is in working order.

[stephen_lee]

on my car actually something similar happened. it was the cam position sensor. a wire got cought in the distributor and ripped the pickup coil to hell. ran like crap, and got progressively worse. i say get the whole distributor replaced. but if its not, keep your old distro.. you might need it eventually(or sell it)

[Jen]

the distributor was replaced

please read the whole thread. =(

[lagos]

are you SURE they replaced the fuel pump? you have a receipt for the part and laybor?

if they did, then the next thing i would check is the fuel pump relay. they can burn out sometimes, causing issues like this.

where is the car now? still at the shop or at your house?

too bad you dont live on the east coast. there are a lot of people here that would have your car running in no time.

[Jen]

are you SURE they replaced the fuel pump? you have a receipt for the part and laybor?

if they did, then the next thing i would check is the fuel pump relay. they can burn out sometimes, causing issues like this.

where is the car now? still at the shop or at your house?

too bad you dont live on the east coast. there are a lot of people here that would have your car running in no time.

positive.

at the shop.

i do live on the east coast. just in the south.

[supradog1]

were is the car now??? what dealer ship did you take it to keth pirson???
my B/F said, if you have replaced all the parts in the list... he would say its most likely some thing with your timeing, meaning crank position sensor, cam position sensor... i would also replace fuel filter for extra mesure... but he is all most 100% + thats what it is if every thing eals has been checked/replaced.... he also said to check all the harness conectons under the hood and make sure thay are all clean and pluged in all the way... also check for any cut harness or wires as these things could cause the problem also... your going to need a sharp eye cause the other shops might have not noticed the problem because its in a tight spot and very hard to see... good luck...

[alltracman78]

not working still. i told you that the engine code thing didn't work. i've been carless for over a month now. i hate this.

You need to read a little better as well.
I'm not talking about the regular jumping TE1 and E1.
This is a DIFFERENT diagnostic mode. Go back and carefully read what I said.
I can't promise that out of all the techs that looked at your car none of them tried what I'm telling you, but I do know it's not a commonly know procedure.
Even at a dealership.

You don't even need a tech to do this, you can do it yourself.
All you need to do is take a paper clip, jump 2 connectors, and run the car [I guess that would be the hard part]. Once you get a code [if you get any] we can go from there.

This is an OBDI thing, and only went for 4 years on certain cars.

I also can't promise it will solve your problem, but it is a better way to look at it.

Also, has anyone looked at the ECU itself?
If you are having all these different codes, it is a possibility.

my B/F said, if you have replaced all the parts in the list... he would say its most likely some thing with your timeing, meaning crank position sensor, cam position sensor...

Your super car wizzzzz boyfriend needs to learn a bit more.
There is no crank position sensor on her engine, just as I've already stated.
She has a 95.
96 and newer have the crank position sensor.

Also, her dist has already been replaced.
Which houses the cam position sensor.

In addition to this, if her timing was off it's rather unlikely it would intermittently start, and intermittently run good and bad.
It should either not run or run like poo.

[Jen]

They are now saying it's the PCM? What do ya'll think?

They're doing it for free, because 3 mechanics have given up on my car already.

You need to read a little better as well.
I'm not talking about the regular jumping TE1 and E1.
This is a DIFFERENT diagnostic mode. Go back and carefully read what I said.
I can't promise that out of all the techs that looked at your car none of them tried what I'm telling you, but I do know it's not a commonly know procedure.
Even at a dealership.

I know exactly what you said, and understand it. What I was attempting to say was, the engine codes never told me exactly the problem. They told me 8 different things, 8 different times. So, it was never right.

[Bitter]

it could be an issue where the main wiring harness has been damaged in some way that some wires dont make good contact all the time, or some tricky intermittent ground issue.

[alltracman78]

Also, has anyone looked at the ECU itself?
If you are having all these different codes, it is a possibility.

They are now saying it's the PCM? What do ya'll think?

The PCM is the Powertrain Control Module.
AKA ECU.

They're doing it for free, because 3 mechanics have given up on my car already.

You need to read a little better as well.
I'm not talking about the regular jumping TE1 and E1.
This is a DIFFERENT diagnostic mode. Go back and carefully read what I said.
I can't promise that out of all the techs that looked at your car none of them tried what I'm telling you, but I do know it's not a commonly know procedure.
Even at a dealership.

I know exactly what you said, and understand it. What I was attempting to say was, the engine codes never told me exactly the problem. They told me 8 different things, 8 different times. So, it was never right.

:shrug:

Codes won't always give you an answer.
That mode can help in solving it when regular codes don't.

However, if it's your ECU codes on an OBDI are useless.
Hopefully if it is you can find one used.

[Jen]

If it's my ECU, they are crediting my account for everything that was done thus far that didn't fix the problem.

I pick it up tomorrow.

[lagos]

well at least they are willing to keep hacking away at it without extra charges.

[Jen]

Okay, update. It's finally fixed.. at least.. it's been driven for a couple of days without it breaking down. I got $1200 back, which went straight to the credit card. At least I'm no longer sporting the soccer mom look with a mini-van.

All of this sht has forced me to postpone a trip to SoCal that I was supposed to go on next week. ='(

Time to sell the car. Thanks for all of your help.