clutch expert needed, asap Options

[urbandork]

ok so heres the situation

1 Clutch will not disengage
2 Clutch is a spec 3 hybrid set up for a 3s swap with lil over 3000k miles on it
3 Master cylinder squeaks
4 I noticed that the grab point for the clutch/pedal has changed up until today where it wouldnt disengage at all
5 Before, with the clutch pedal all the way to the ground/firewall/floor the clutch started to grab after 3 to 4 inches of release where as right before the problem tonite the grab point was an inch or less.... i parked, got some food, and then upon starting the car up it would not engage....
6 I had to keep it in gear and let the starter kick over the engine which eventually was able to get the car moving...... after reversing i attempted to put it in first and it would not go into gear again until i turned off the car, put it in first and then let the starter kick over the engine...... after first gear i attempted to put it in second and it would not go into second. I assume this is that stop pin thing which prevents a shift while the clutch is engaged right?

There where and are no rattling noises or vibrations when driving or in neutral and the engine running and when car is off the trans can be shifted into any gear. So i assume the flywheel and pressure plate are bolted on fine (yes i torqued them down to spec when i did the install) and that the trans is ok (when i had the lsd diff installed the guy said the 75k mile trans looked in great shape)

I noticed recently that the trans had a hard time down shifting i.e. i would pull it out of fifth and it would have a hard time getting it into forth or it wouldnt go into forth at all.

In addition, recently pulling out of any gear and putting it into a higher gear seemed to require a bit of a forceful jerk.

There is fluid in the master cylinder and there shouldnt be any air in the lines as nothing has been disconnected. no leaks either.

Heres the kicker.. which confuses me a bit...... i had someone step on the clutch as i watched the slave cylinder push the throwout bearing fork and it moves.... but it only moves about 1/2 of an inch to an inch.... i dont remember how much it use to move when i could shift/before the problem tonight.
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I was thinking it must be my master or slave cylinder. seeing as my master squeaks id say that might be my issue.....

..... however i know that when the master cylinder goes bad the pedal usually just drops to the ground. my guess would be that the master or slave cylinder was going out and not disengaging the clutch all the way until it finally didnt have enough hydraulic pressure to disengage it at all.


any thoughts?

[hurley97]

if your master cylinder is bad you should have seen some signs before it would just completely not disengage the clutch at all.

on a level surface put it in gear, hold the clutch pedal to the floor, foot off the brake, what happens? do the RPMs drop and the clutch slowly start to engage and the car creep forward? thats your master cylinder

if you think its the slave or master then just replace them, its easy enough to do them both and see if the problem still occurs.

[urbandork]

on a level surface put it in gear, hold the clutch pedal to the floor, foot off the brake, what happens? do the RPMs drop and the clutch slowly start to engage and the car creep forward? thats your master cylinder

1 Clutch will not disengage
.....thus i cant do this and instead have to do number 6

if your master cylinder is bad you should have seen some signs before it would just completely not disengage the clutch at all.

4 I noticed that the grab point for the clutch/pedal has changed up until today where it wouldnt disengage at all
5 Before, with the clutch pedal all the way to the ground/firewall/floor the clutch started to grab after 3 to 4 inches of release where as right before the problem tonite the grab point was an inch or less

I noticed recently that the trans had a hard time down shifting i.e. i would pull it out of fifth and it would have a hard time getting it into forth or it wouldnt go into forth at all

In addition, recently pulling out of any gear and putting it into a higher gear seemed to require a bit of a forceful jerk.......
..... could those be signs of a master/slave cylinder problem?????

if you think its the slave or master then just replace them, its easy enough to do them both and see if the problem still occurs.

tmw will be install day if i can get the parts on time and before work.

This post has been edited by urbandork: Aug 6, 2007 - 12:13 PM

[x_itchy_b_x]

yes. or low fluid. or alot of air in the line.

[urbandork]

yes. or low fluid. or alot of air in the line.

There is fluid in the master cylinder and there shouldnt be any air in the lines as nothing has been disconnected. no leaks either.

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With the fluid toped off and there being no visible leaks what other ways can air get into the lines??? perhaps through the diaphragm thingy??

[lagos]

do a clutch pedal adjustment.
speedsource also sells a longer push rod, to add more disengagement with aftermarket clutches.

if none of this helps, then its possible that the springs on the disk are shot. but dont jump to that conclusion right away.

[urbandork]

do a clutch pedal adjustment.
speedsource also sells a longer push rod, to add more disengagement with aftermarket clutches.

i already have the longer push rod from them.


DAMN..... i really hope its not the spec clutch

if none of this helps, then its possible that the springs on the disk are shot. but dont jump to that conclusion right away.

do you mean the 6 springs on the disc or the leaf type springs which are on the pressure plate???



thanks guys. any other advice is still very welcomed... i need all the ideas possible.

This post has been edited by urbandork: Aug 6, 2007 - 12:32 PM

[lagos]

the springs on the disk. my friend had very similar issues with his dsm. when they pulled the tranny, all the springs were shot. but, who knows if thats your problem or not. might be worth while to try and limp the car to an amacco or something and get a free diagnosis from guys that do this stuff for a living.

[x_itchy_b_x]

to me it sounds only like the clutch engagement system. ie the fluid and the components it goes through. one of them isnt working properly. the master or slave could be shot and the fluid could have air in it even when its topped off. it takes some time to really get all the air out, where that air would come from is also the cause of the problem.

I went through the same thing, the hard time shifting in and out of gears, the really low engagement height ect. for me it was just air, but it could be any of the 3. the master slave and fluid are all links in a chain

try bleeding it for ____ and giggles and when bleeding it look for air exiting.
and if there isnt any air then you can cross it off the list of things that it could be.

after reading what lagos said, it could also be a spring wedged where it wont let the the clutch disengage.
got a few possibilities to check.

This post has been edited by x_itchy_b_x: Aug 6, 2007 - 1:40 PM

[malecrod]

I went through this many times myself since the swap. Probably more than I would like to admit. But in any case as pointed out by earlier posts, you have a problem with either the hydraulic system or the clutch or the clutch components. I suggest you start with the simplest and easiest things first then to the more involved stuff like the clutch as follows:

1. Make sure fluid is ok, bleed system of air
2. slave cylinder check or replace - I believe it has to move at least 1 inch with pedal depressed?
3. Master cylinder check or replace - usually there will be a leak externally but internal leak is possible.
4. finally the clutch and its components

Personally, I have just had bad luck with the spec clutches. And I suspect this is what is causing your problem. I doubt its slave/master cylinder problem but who knows?
Clutch work is a real pain in the neck, so to speak.
Good luck.

[urbandork]

well i put in a new master and slave.... that wasnt the problem.... being with out much time i took it to the shop for the first time and here is what was found





im so depressed... now word yet if spec will get me a new one.... but if they dont im going with another clutch company. I mean come on its a stg3 kit on a bone stock 3s.......... now i also need a flywheel sigh.....

[2slow2nervous]

i am also having a clutch problem. When im accelerating my clutch will just decompress and go straight to the floor with out me touching it. Why would that happen?

[x_itchy_b_x]

Good call Lagos. highafive. very nice.