Stef's 7AFTE Tech/Project, First Dyno run pg16 Options

[hurley97]

As many of you know I'm going to turbo the 7A.


So first things first, with the help of Garrett's Turbo Tech 103 (Expert), I did the compressor flow map calculations... try to follow along, if you have any questions just ask...

here are the EQUATIONS:


and the CALCULATIONS (for a 7AFE with a target of 200hp at the flywheel):


then you need to plot some numbers on the COMPRESSOR FLOW MAP of your choice
I got a small Garrett 2052 which should be enough for my goals


From just looking at different compressor flow maps you'll learn a lot. In general, the closer the turbine and exhaust housing sizes the wider your power range will be but the maximum boost level is limited. When the sizes are significantly different you'll notice the compressor map will look taller and thinner, that gives you a smaller RPM range you can boost in but you can achieve higher boost levels in that range.

This post has been edited by hurley97: Jul 24, 2009 - 5:13 PM

[presure2]

good stuff steff, keep it comin!

[jcbass7]

this is going to be a good thread

[Piloter]

Hey guys, I'm the Piloter who's doing the 7AGE build over at ToyotaNation, just thought I'd stop lurking and drop by for this thread in particular.

I've been doing some intensive modeling of the 7AFE/7AGE/7AFTE/7AGTE/7AGZE/7AFZE via Engine Analyzer Pro and trying to get a selection of compatible turbos/superchargers programmed in as options, thus I've been reading a LOT of flow maps. This was originally created for the VW guys, and I've modified it slightly to give conversion factors of airflow in pretty much every unit possible, you'll just have to modify the VE at your discretion and plug in numbers to boost RPMs and PSIs.

http://rapidshare.com/files/59382057/18tCo...ctions.xls.html

I have to head to work right now, but just off the top of my head the best turbos to start looking at if you want 7 PSI by 3K (what I've been simulating for) would be a GT2552R or a TD04-15. The GT2862RS ('disco potato') and T3-'Super 60' will both come up on 7 PSI by 4K, but that's with the flow figures for a bigport 16V head. Hope this helps.

[hurley97]

I have already bought a turbo. When I get some time I'll post up the compressor map for it and explain where to plot the lines and how to tell how much boost it will make and when.

[lagos]

damn girl, you got more projects then the ghetto!

[hurley97]

but for now I'll introduce the rest of my turbo project...

What little things I have so far:

AFC Neo Fuel Controller


Oil Pressure and Boost Gauges


Manual Boost Controller


2 Bar MAP Sensor


Rebuilt 7AFE waiting to be put back together and boosted


Log Style Exhaust Manifold
(I can't find the picture of it... and its at work so I can't take one)

Turbo
(being FedEx'd from Canada at the moment)

[OrbitalGT95]

I have a feeling your lil ST is gonna kick some serious dyno ass

[hurley97]

damn girl, you got more projects then the ghetto!

hahaha...

(I know that was pointless but I just had to respond to that one)

[playr158]

steph do you mind if i add this to the 7afte sticky, since it is missing this data

[hurley97]

steph do you mind if i add this to the 7afte sticky, since it is missing this data

thats fine with me Dan.

Once I add more about the calculations and actual flow maps I'll see if someone can move it around so it's all together and away from all my turbo setup stuff.

[playr158]

thanks chica

[celicast3sgte]

but for now I'll introduce the rest of my turbo project...

What little things I have so far:


Oil Pressure and Boost Gauges

heyyy! i have those same ones. color n all

[CelicaST_CALI]

dan are u a m0d?

[lagos]

steph do you mind if i add this to the 7afte sticky, since it is missing this data

thats fine with me Dan.

Once I add more about the calculations and actual flow maps I'll see if someone can move it around so it's all together and away from all my turbo setup stuff.

i think you should have your own "stickie". you did the research and you deserve the credit.

i have to confess. i see all the math and research, and then i see that pic of the neo, and its kind of a buzz kill for me..lol

[nik]

another 7afte project keep up the great work oh and dont forget to port match that helps

[hurley97]

my turbo is here... and its little, just like everything else in the 7A, perfect match if you ask me


I tried to give an idea of size with some of the pics but it just makes my hand look big... so keep in mind I have tiny hands...

[1bwilson]

Use a coke can next time , big hands or little turbo, either way looking good

[presure2]

mmm yummy turbo!

[Blakout16]

that looks similiar to my turbo hmm!

[Hanyo]

that looks like such a small turbo.

I can't wait to see your car boosting and the dyno charts.

keep up the good work.

[Valo666]

thats a pretty small turbo...looks like you shoulda gone with like a CT9 or somethin.

[Celiracer18]

what are the specs for the turbo?

[Harold_Fastwaker]

Looks like an AR.50(x).


Which will be fine for 170ish.


The .60 compressor maps fit much better when looking to push bigger power. But since you wrote all that craziness out I am sure you know that.

[Blakout16]

that is small... makes mine look HUGE ... haha ;D

[Bricy]

I figured I'd bump this up and see how the project was going.

[normality78]

im quite positive he can reach 200 on flywheel with this turbo as long as this turbo able to flow 220cu ft/min

[95celgt]

u must mean SHE can reach that goal

[Steevo]

This thread is awesome.

[hurley97]

I got some Supra lime green top 315cc injectors from Manny (presure2) which I just sent out to be cleaned and flow tested.

I bought all the lines and fitting for my oil filter relocation and oil return, I'm working on the oil feed items.

Peter, the tech at work, his brother-in-law does some machine work so he had my oil pan drilled and tapped in the place we had decided on.

we put some kind of metal putty stuff just to reinforce it a little...


kind of blurry but just so you can see about where it is


and just for reference, you can see on the bottom what it used to be. of course we made sure it wasn't used for anything first...

im quite positive he can reach 200 on flywheel with this turbo as long as this turbo able to flow 220cu ft/min

u must mean SHE can reach that goal

yes its true. I am a girl.

[doGGy]

Everything looks perfect so far - oil return is in totaly perfect place.

But just same as Lagos said - Seeing such setup, and seeing SAFC Neo - witch isnt acurate at all - makes me wanna cry... Dont go cheap - pleas, sell it out, get the Emanage ATLEAST (same **** - but still more tune-up options...) or the best would be MegaSquirt... This way you would be able to to Squize up some more power and have totaly safe setup.

[lagos]

yeah, the safc is the major flaw in your setup so far, but everything else looks great.

i would also like to commend you on not painting the engine pink. i know that if this was tina's build up, this would have been the case.

[OrbitalGT95]

yeah, the safc is the major flaw in your setup so far, but everything else looks great.

i would also like to commend you on not painting the engine pink. i know that if this was tina's build up, this would have been the case.

WHHAAAA Pink is sooo JDM Art

[95celgt]

Amazing work stef! This makes me want to buy my old STX back from my friend and build it, i always liked the 7afe in that car, more than the 5s thats for sure, and if this set up hits 200hp i might just do that....keep it up:)

[normality78]

ops sorry. whahahaha. i wasnt know is a lady. yeah, im quite positive you able to reach the hp target you set..... IF only with emanage. whahahaha.... serious. go for emanage. Ignition timing is crucial as far as i know for forced

[hurley97]

yeah, the safc is the major flaw in your setup so far, but everything else looks great.

i would also like to commend you on not painting the engine pink. i know that if this was tina's build up, this would have been the case.

then you buy me an eManage for Christmas

[Panswed]

what kind of turbo header are you going to use?

[hurley97]

what kind of turbo header are you going to use?

just a log style. I need to have the flange cut off and another one welded in.

[hurley97]

Newly acquired items:

Walbro 255lph Fuel Pump GSS-342 and install kit 400-765


and Manny (presure2) gave me the lime green top injectors from the Horniak's (itchy_b) old 5S fuel rail.
I got them back from being cleaned and flow tested, I just haven't taken them out of the bag yet





I also took the cams out of the rebuilt motor at work and sent them to WebCams to be re-ground last week. they received them on Tues and I'm going to call them today for an update.

[LewFX]

isnt a 255 fuel pump extreme for a 7a? i hear a 180 is enough used in some eclipse's

[jcbass7]

nice nice stef!!

what are you going to use for an IC, mine might be going soon

[1bwilson]

Looking good, witchhunter does a great job with injectors. They did my 460's. Great work and a great price, love the flow chart they send with the cleaned ones.

[x_itchy_b_x]

awesome, is some sorta step cousin way I contributed to your build wooo woo

[hurley97]

nice nice stef!!

what are you going to use for an IC, mine might be going soon

PWR Water-to-Air


Mustang Cobra heat exchanger


then I need to research and find a good pump that won't make too much noise.

here's the basic design of a water to air setup

[celicast3sgte]

fascinating. wayy more in depth 7afte build than anyone else. cool stuff

[x_itchy_b_x]

id use an oem cobra pump also. least thats what ive read alot in the past.

[normality78]

damn... i was just thinking of the pro and cons using watercooled intercooler there you've already planned it. Im impressed....

what is the cam spec you're going to do?

[trdcelica94]

NICE!also good choice on the turbo...

[trdcelica94]

isnt a 255 fuel pump extreme for a 7a? i hear a 180 is enough used in some eclipse's

its not extreme? but once u change i recommend u put premium gasoline

[jcbass7]

steff, can you run the IC anywhere in the engine bay? since all of the heat is getting removed at the exchanger? makes sense, kinda like the st205 IC.

do you know how you plan to route it yet?

[hurley97]

steff, can you run the IC anywhere in the engine bay? since all of the heat is getting removed at the exchanger? makes sense, kinda like the st205 IC.

do you know how you plan to route it yet?

yes. the heat exchanger will be mounted in front of the radiator. the piping will go directly from the turbo compressor outlet to the throttle body and the intercooler itself will be mounted right inline with that (about where the stock airbox would be). pretty much just the same idea as the ST205 water to air setup

[hurley97]

Here's my Excel Spreadsheet Parts List.
the green are all things I have bought and paid for. the red is all stuff I have yet to buy.
I'm pretty happy how the red has shrunk in the past few months. I'm getting excited about this.

[jcbass7]

nice spreadsheet, i need to start one of those.. actually i need to start like 4 of those... engine, suspension, exterior, interior...

[normality78]

damn... you put me on shame. I cant even do out tat details whn im preparing for my turbokit.

[elvasoshexai]

i had a spreadshhet too but it ended up so disorganized... i thought i was crazy for the amount i spent on my setup.. my cost was similar to urs.. but seems like u got a lot more than me =/ i guess i suck @ bargain hunting

[celicast3sgte]

i know i got that price beat... :-/ hahaha im up there around itchy B!!!

[CelicaST_CALI]

Here's my Excel Spreadsheet Parts List.
the green are all things I have bought and paid for. the red is all stuff I have yet to buy.
I'm pretty happy how the red has shrunk in the past few months. I'm getting excited about this.

MY BIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!lol

[celicast3sgte]

btw, are you going to add a wideband o2 to that list??

[hurley97]

btw, are you going to add a wideband o2 to that list??

its not on the list because I was thinking about whether or not it would be more cost effective to just dyno tune it for $50-60 rather than actually buy a wideband. I was looking into the AEM UEGO Wideband but I have no place I want to mount it.

[jesterwr217]

btw, are you going to add a wideband o2 to that list??

its not on the list because I was thinking about whether or not it would be more cost effective to just dyno tune it for $50-60 rather than actually buy a wideband. I was looking into the AEM UEGO Wideband but I have no place I want to mount it.

doing that would be acurate as far as tunning it but you want a wideband to keep an eye on things if something happens

[hurley97]

I am considering the Innovate Motorsports LC-1 Wideband. I want to find out more about it first. Its's more expensive than the AEM UEGO at $259 + shipping

It mainly is just a wideband that comes with software to hook up to a computer but I'm looking at a package that includes a small digital readout...

[lagos]

The only difference is that the AEM doesn't come with its own data logging software. If you want to data log, you have to have a stand alone, emanage,etc.. and wire up the output to that.

The Innovative comes with its own loging software, and you can add stuff like egt, boost, rpm, etc.. so that you can log everything right though their software.

[Celiracer18]

Logworks2 is Amazing. I have the LC-1 but i havent used/installed it yet, only thing ive done so far is play around on the software with the sample logs. I think you'd be happy with it.

[frosty]

This is coming across as a nice build, keep it up! Really enjoying this!

[hurley97]

I just ordered an Exedy Racing Stage 2 Cerametallic clutch $399 shipped from importrp.com

also, I just got my heat exchanger today. its used and a little dinged up but I think it'll be ok. if it doesn't do well I'll use a small oil cooler for a while until I can get something else.

[x_itchy_b_x]

a small half radiator from a civic would also work well.

[normality78]

perhaps using kcar type? im using one as my radiator. slightly smaller thn civic

http://img187.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc003880wq.jpg

http://img455.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc003897fl.jpg

http://img473.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc003926nt.jpg

[OOBE]

You should have no problem with hitting the 200 HP mark, but you will also have no problem frying the tires with that little-ass turbo, hahaha. Gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling seeing other 7A-FE projects come into fruition. I started in 2003 and I haven't dyno-tuned yet or even finished, LOL.

[hurley97]

I bought the Innovate LC-1 -- $271.95 shipped. it should be here sometime this week.

[hurley97]

You should have no problem with hitting the 200 HP mark, but you will also have no problem frying the tires with that little-ass turbo, hahaha. Gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling seeing other 7A-FE projects come into fruition. I started in 2003 and I haven't dyno-tuned yet or even finished, LOL.

I finally decided on this and started gathering parts sometime in the beginning of 2007. probably around March or so. I started having some problems with my current engine and it wasn't until I got the other engine from Defgeph in August that I really started getting serious about it. Now I have about 80% of the parts. If all goes well I hope to have the rest of the parts and get the turbo in by the summer time.

[normality78]

cant wait to see your engine run live...

[OOBE]

You should have no problem with hitting the 200 HP mark, but you will also have no problem frying the tires with that little-ass turbo, hahaha. Gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling seeing other 7A-FE projects come into fruition. I started in 2003 and I haven't dyno-tuned yet or even finished, LOL.

I finally decided on this and started gathering parts sometime in the beginning of 2007. probably around March or so. I started having some problems with my current engine and it wasn't until I got the other engine from Defgeph in August that I really started getting serious about it. Now I have about 80% of the parts. If all goes well I hope to have the rest of the parts and get the turbo in by the summer time.

Even though it will not fast by any means, just the gigantic difference in power from the stock engine will put a huge smile on your face. It's a very awesome feeling.

Right after I installed everything and got out of the muffler shop, I was only boosting 3 PSI (well, boost gauge and EBC indicated 3 PSI, and the spring was a 4.3 PSI one ) . The few extra ponies made a big difference. I nailed it and the car spun those 17" Enkeis like nothing when boost came on, while lurching forwared strongly and gaining speed quick. Not bad, especially from a 60 MPH roll. Mine is automatic, and it still felt like a huge difference. I'll tell you something, honest as it can be: I had a 600 horsepower Supra in Virginia, and I still enjoyed my Celica when I came to the island for vacation. I could be at a red light and punch it when it turned green, and it was instant tire spinning, along with pretty strong torque steer, and a very satisfying pull. The externally-dumped wastegate sound was a treat to the ears, too, followed with the BOV sound when releasing unused boost when I let go the gas to slow down. I climbed to 60 in less than 6 seconds, which I measured many, many times. Big difference compared to the [as far as I remember] 9 seconds it took in stock form. Sorry for the long post, but I get excited when someone else is about to go through something I've experienced prior.

[hurley97]

I like the quote at the bottom of your sig... I kinda want to put it in mine too

[OOBE]

Be my guest, girl. The more proud owners, the merrier.

[Shocker]

i gues i need it in mine too.
i too need a stand alone9 my safc Sucks a**)
and to install my new clutch

[OOBE]

Yes, it does suck. For other cars, it works, but apparently, our engine doesn't benefit much from it. As a matter of fact, after the guy pulled out the S-AFC from my Celica to steal it, the car ran much, much better.

[hurley97]

My clutch was also delivered yesterday. its an Exedy Racing Stage 2 Cerametallic Clutch








I got my wideband a few days ago. so today's project was where to mount it... so I no longer have a clock, it is now my wideband gauge





This post has been edited by hurley97: Dec 5, 2007 - 10:22 PM

[OOBE]

Hahahaha CLEVER.

[m0dd3d1]

How the hell do you learn all of this! Damnit I'm a jealous mofo.

[jcbass7]

Good stuff steff, keep it up

[x_itchy_b_x]

i like your idea! neato (spanish for neat)
your clutch disc is intense!

[hurley97]

I know... I think I'm a little scared of it....

[celicast3sgte]

haha scared of it how???

[fran]

Nice project!

Nice clutch!... im pretty shure that will work fine! dont worry abouit it! looks pretty nice!

I just think that you must get a bigger turbo!... little more big

Very nice proyect!... Good luck with it!

By the way!... You 6g its beautyfull! i like it a looot!

[i_want_vtec]

did any of you guys look into this while you were considering widebands? its really cheap if you have soldering skills.
cheap wideband

[hurley97]

haha scared of it how???

I'm afraid of compromising the daily driveablility of the car

[frosty]

haha scared of it how???

I'm afraid of compromising the daily driveablility of the car

eh, it would beweird at first, but after it got broke in and you got used to it, I doubt you would care, just be smilin!

[celicast3sgte]

naw itll be fine. ive driven all sorts of clutches. that one will have quite a bit more pedal pressure than your OEM one but it wont compromise driveability just give you a bigger thigh lol

[lagos]

haha scared of it how???

I'm afraid of compromising the daily driveablility of the car

expect it to totally suck ass for the first month or so, but hopefully after that it will get better.

[hurley97]

its been almost a week now, I've got about 250 miles on it. for the first couple of days, yes, it totally sucked... but for the last day or two its been much better, I'm not sure if the clutch wore itself in or if I'm just getting more used to it.

[lagos]

nice! it will smooth out more and more as its breaks in.

[FortuneCookie]

Nice. Good job on the efforts.

[hurley97]

update: I think I am falling in love with my clutch, it grabs so nicely now with over 700 miles on it


I bought a new flange for my exhaust manifold (it has a T3 flange on the end and my turbo is a T25 footprint) so Manny can continue his welding projects that he loves so much (that is not to be mistaken for sarcasm).

I also got the flex section for my exhaust. Its 2.5" SS 6" long flex section from ATP Turbo.

[celicast3sgte]

comin along nicely. whats the projected ET? sorry if youve already said so.

[hurley97]

I've run into some financial issues but I'm still trying to gather more parts, it's just going slower now.


Battery relocation is done. I still need some intercooler stuff, a BOV, and then start going over piping with Manny

[FortuneCookie]

Wow. Still alot of work to be done. But hey, look on the bright side. At then, there will be a BIG smile on your face when manny says, "Ok... we're done."

[hurley97]

I may also want to get a turbo timer. I'm still not sure about it and I guess I can always get one later.

I'm also trying to decide if I want to give in and sell my APEXi AFC Neo and get an E-Manage Blue. What I like about the Neo is the ability to change settings as well as see what the current correction is as I'm driving.

[lagos]

I may also want to get a turbo timer. I'm still not sure about it and I guess I can always get one later.

I'm also trying to decide if I want to give in and sell my APEXi AFC Neo and get an E-Manage Blue. What I like about the Neo is the ability to change settings as well as see what the current correction is as I'm driving.

Sell the safc, dont buy a turbo timer, and put the money into an emanage.
The wideband will give you all the info you need, and you'll be able to datalog while driving with the emanage. Not to mention that the Emanage can independently control fuel and timing. Thats a huge benefit. The SAFC really should never be used to try to control bigger injectors.

If you really want a turbo timer I highly recommend the Blitz dualTT with digital boost gauge. Its more accurate then any gauge I've ever used. The only downside is that it reads in BAR, but you get used to it quickly.... and the turbo timer part works fine too.

[6strngs]

I may also want to get a turbo timer. I'm still not sure about it and I guess I can always get one later.

I'm also trying to decide if I want to give in and sell my APEXi AFC Neo and get an E-Manage Blue. What I like about the Neo is the ability to change settings as well as see what the current correction is as I'm driving.

Sell the safc, dont buy a turbo timer, and put the money into an emanage.
The wideband will give you all the info you need, and you'll be able to datalog while driving with the emanage. Not to mention that the Emanage can independently control fuel and timing. Thats a huge benefit. The SAFC really should never be used to try to control bigger injectors.

If you really want a turbo timer I highly recommend the Blitz dualTT with digital boost gauge. Its more accurate then any gauge I've ever used. The only downside is that it reads in BAR, but you get used to it quickly.... and the turbo timer part works fine too.

emanage blue can control timing? I thought only the ultimate could?

[normality78]

yes u can, all u need to is get the harness which is pretty cheap