ss-iii / ss-ii / GT ??????, anyone tell me the difference?? Options

[Aus]

anyone tell me the difference between the celica ss-iii and the GT

are they both 3sge?? (In the uk anyway!!)

what is beams???

and finally, whats the power difference, and can i put it on my 98 GT 3sge???

[Supersprynt]

Well in the US the GT has the 5sfe engine, while the SSII/III have the 3SGE. Beams is a version of SSII/III that has VVTI im pretty sure you'd probably have to do a swap or pay alotta $$

[Coomer]

In the UK, the GT is indeed powered by a 3S-GE. I wasn't aware that an SS-III model was offered in the UK, and I don't know what the difference is between the two in the UK.

Beams means that the engine is a red-top 3S-GE with VVT-i(Variable Valve Timing with Intelligence.) Your 3S-GE from 1998 should have BEAMS VVT-i already. Does it have a red valve cover and intake manifold cover?

[celi94]

YES AND NO!!!

In belgium, germany, netherlands, france, uk, ecs... we have only the ST, GT and the GT-4
ST= 1800cc 16v (7afe) imported from 1994-1999
GT= 2000cc 16v (3sge) imported from 1994-1999
GT-4= 2000cc 16v turbo (3sgte) imported from 1994-1996

In our region of europe there are no 3sge engines with vvti, red or black beams.
I know that in the region off cyprus (grees) they have the other engines too!

The cheapest way to change your engine from a 3sge to a 3sge with beams is to do a swap!!

If you want more detailles i think you better do a mail to fensprot in the uk.

[Junior]

If you want a 3sge without beam swaped into a 3sge with beams, just change the head. I believe the bottom end is identical.

[Rivo]

You're not just changing the head. You're changing the wiring harness and the ECU. While the Bottom end may be the same, the CR is raised .5 and VVT-i is added. Not just a simple swap

Edit: 3rd gen 3sge (94-99 Celica GT's) has 177 HP. BEAMS is a Japanese Tuning company. The BEAMS 3SGE has 200 HP and I believe 160-170 ft lbs torque

This post has been edited by Rivo: Sep 18, 2003 - 2:16 PM

[khye]

SSII has the 3SGE engine (179bhp)
the SSIII has the 3SGE vvti engine (200bhp)

The vvti one has a red top with BEAMS written on the head

(I have the SSII and my father has the SSIII)

[Aus]

ok, thanks 4 clearing that up!!

[celica_maori]

Hey Khye its there much of a boost diffeence between ur car and ur dads SS3. Does the BEAMS kick in at a certain REVS like the Mivec (Mitsubishi)engine?

[Penkka]

Edit: 3rd gen 3sge (94-99 Celica GT's) has 177 HP. BEAMS is a Japanese Tuning company. The BEAMS 3SGE has 200 HP and I believe 160-170 ft lbs torque

Beams isn´t a tuning company, sorry.
It means Breakthrough Engine with Advanced Mechanism System. Just new technology.

|| I know this topic was old as loveboat and star wars 2, but had to say that ||

This post has been edited by Penkka: Jan 1, 2008 - 9:06 AM

[Shink]

SSII has the 3SGE engine (179bhp)
the SSIII has the 3SGE vvti engine (200bhp)

Not always true. The late 97 SS-III has the BEAMS 3s-ge engine. Early 97 SS-III like mine, sadly, only have the standard 3s-ge.

[Aus]

BLOODY HELL...talk about old topic!! I think that was my 1st ever post..... a lot has changed since then.......

[Shink]

BLOODY HELL...talk about old topic!! I think that was my 1st ever post..... a lot has changed since then.......

You're right, it is veeery old Didn't notice that. Still valid though, I guess, since 6gc models haven't changed since 2003.

And, I might add, still a little complicated and sometimes misunderstood on this site. Especially here, where people have US, UK, and JDM cars. US Celicas are, for lack of a better word, weird. What's with the low spec engines you guys have, anyway?

Going back on topic, did the US ever get the BEAMS or is that only in JDM cars?

[BloodyStupidDave...]

Going back on topic, did the US ever get the BEAMS or is that only in JDM cars?

Only JDM cars - neither US nor Europe (inc. UK) got BEAMS directly. There were three versions, Red Top (MR2, Celica, Caldina), Black Top (IS200, IS300, Altezza RS200) and "Grey Top" (actually black-topped) (Rav4).

There was also the fourth gen. 3S-GTE which only JDM got.

This post has been edited by BloodyStupidDavey: Jan 1, 2008 - 2:59 PM

[goferris]

BLOODY HELL...talk about old topic!! I think that was my 1st ever post..... a lot has changed since then.......

You're right, it is veeery old Didn't notice that. Still valid though, I guess, since 6gc models haven't changed since 2003.

And, I might add, still a little complicated and sometimes misunderstood on this site. Especially here, where people have US, UK, and JDM cars. US Celicas are, for lack of a better word, weird. What's with the low spec engines you guys have, anyway?

Going back on topic, did the US ever get the BEAMS or is that only in JDM cars?

HEY BE NICE TO US ACROSS THE POND!!!!!
it's not our fault that toyota gave us the shaft!!!! as far as i know they never sent any cars to the US with the beams motor (black/red/gray tops) or even the 3sge. i'm not sure why they decided to put an under powered motor in our cars. probably a customs thing. they did offer the 3sgte in the old all trac and mr2 turbo but even then they were dumbed down compared to jdm/euro spec motors and the reason why i think they didn't do it in our cars and why the gt4 wasn't offered in the states is because they didn't sell well due to how expensive they were. i think that was one of the major downfalls of the US celi. for what they cost you didn't get much power out of it. i can't remember exactly who did the review (edmunds IIRC) but they pointed out that you could get a much quicker car for about the same price tag or less like the integra. either way we got screwed.

[BloodyStupidDave...]

i'm not sure why they decided to put an under powered motor in our cars. probably a customs thing... either way we got screwed.

I think Toyota tweaked the specs for each market to meet specific price points. In the US, the emphasis was on inexpensive while in Japan the emphasis was on performance with Europe somewhere in between.

Bear in mind that cruise control was only available on USDM (and a few other LHD territories). Leather was much more commonly specified and more affordable in the US than in Europe.

[ScratchandSniff]

Did you guys know that the VVtl-i engine has been discontinued because it doesn't meet the Euro iv specifications for emissions. As a result, some Toyota models have been discontinued, including the Corolla T-Sport (Europe), Corolla Sportivo (Australia), Celica, Corolla XRS, Toyota Matrix XRS, and the Pontiac Vibe GT, all of which had the 2ZZ-GE engine fitted. Just FYI Anyway the most noticeable feature of the VVTL-I engine is the red top with the word Breams written on it. Here's a video that explains how it works .http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSH3hv458Rw&NR=1

[Rusty]

so what else is different besides body work? (we have the make your celica look like a SSIII thread)
and to set the BEST Variable Valve (VVTL-i) http://www.cnorth.com.au/vvtli/vvtl_i.htm not bad for 1.8l with 200HP+

This post has been edited by Rusty: Jan 1, 2008 - 11:03 PM

[malpaso]

I have crated this list few month ago... maybe it will help


JDM - Japan Domestic Market
(cars produced for Japan market)
2.0 SS-I
produced: 09/93 - 08/99
model: ST202-BLMGK (MTM), ST202-BLPGK (ATM)
engine: 3S-FE, 140BHP
more info: all models RHD, liftbacks
2.0 SS-I FWS
produced: 09/93 - 12/97
model: ST203-BLMGK (MTM), ST203-BLPGK (ATM)
engine: 3S-FE, 140BHP
more info: all models RHD, liftbacks
2.0 SS-II
produced: 09/93 - 08/99
model: ST202-BLMVF (MTM), ST202-BLPVF (ATM)
engine: 3S-GE, 170BHP
more info: all models RHD, liftbacks
2.0 SS-III
produced: 08/95 - 08/99
model: ST202-BLMZF (MTM), ST202-BLPZF (ATM)
engine: 3S-GE vvt-i, 210BHP
more info: all models RHD, liftbacks
2.0 convertible
produced: 08/94 - 12/97 (MTM), 08/94 - 05/99 (ATM)
model: ST202C-BKMVF (MTM), ST202C-BKPVF (ATM)
engine: 3S-GE, 170BHP
more info: all models RHD
2.0 GT-four
produced: 02/94 - 08/99
model: ST205-BLMVZ (MTM)
engine: 3S-GTE, 255BHP
more info: all models RHD, liftbacks

EDM - European Domestic Market
(cars produced for European market, UK included)
1.8 ST
produced: 11/93 - 08/99 (LHD), 11/93 - 08/99 (RHD)
model: AT200L-BLMSKW (LHD), AT200R-BLMSKW (RHD)
engine: 7A-FE, 115BHP
more info: all made MTM, liftbacks
2.0 GT
produced: 11/93 - 08/99
model: ST202L-BLMGFW (LHD), ST202R-BLMGFW (RHD)
engine: 3S-GE, 170BHP
more info: all made MTM, liftbacks
2.0 convertible
produced: 08/94 - 05/99
model: ST202L-BKMGFW (LHD), ST202R-BKMGFW (RHD)
engine: 3S-GE, 170BHP
more info: all made MTM
2.0 GT-four
produced: 02/94 - 06/96
model: ST205L-BLMVZW (LHD), ST205R-BLMVZW (RHD)
engine: 3S-GTE, 235BHP
more info: all made MTM, liftbacks

USDM - United States Domestic Market
(cars produced for American market)
1.8 ST Coupe
produced: 09/93 - 12/97
model: AT200L-BCMSKA (MTM), AT200L-BCPSKA (ATM)
engine: 7A-FE, 105BHP
more info: all models LHD
1.8 ST Liftback
produced: 09/93 - 12/97
model: AT200L-BLMSKA (MTM), AT200L-BLPSKA (ATM)
engine: 7A-FE, 105BHP
more info: all models LHD
2.2 GT Coupe, labeled as "GT-S"
produced: 09/93 - 12/97
model: ST204L-BCMGKA (MTM), ST204L-BCPGKA (ATM)
engine: 5S-FE, 135BHP
more info: all models LHD
2.2 ST Coupe, labeled as "GT"
produced: 12/97 - 08/98
model: ST204L-BCMSKA (MTM), ST204L-BCPSKA (ATM)
engine: 5S-FE, 135BHP
more info: all models LHD
2.2 GT Liftback, labeled as "GT"
produced: 09/93 - 12/97
model: ST204L-BLMGKA (MTM), ST204L-BLPGKA (ATM)
engine: 5S-FE, 135BHP
more info: all models LHD
2.2 ST Liftback, labeled as "GT"
produced: 12/97 - 08/99
model: ST204L-BLMSKA (MTM), ST204L-BLPSKA (ATM)
engine: 5S-FE, 135BHP
more info: all models LHD
2.2 GT Convertible
produced: 08/94 - 05/99
model: ST204L-BKMGKA (MTM), ST204L-BKPGKA (ATM)
engine: 5S-FE, 135BHP
more info: all models LHD

CDM - Canadian Domestic Market
(cars produced for Canadian market)
1.8 ST Liftback
produced: 09/93 - 06/96
model: AT200L-BLMSKK (MTM), AT200L-BLPSKK (ATM)
engine: 7A-FE, 105BHP
more info: all models LHD
2.2 GT Coupe, labeled as "GT-S"
produced: 09/93 - 08/95
model: ST204L-BCMGKK (MTM), ST204L-BCPGKK (ATM)
engine: 5S-FE, 135BHP
more info: all models LHD, "sport package" 5S-FE
2.2 GT Liftback, labeled as "GT-S"
produced: 09/93 - 08/99
model: ST204L-BLMGKK (MTM), ST204L-BLPGKK (ATM)
engine: 5S-FE, 135BHP
more info: all models LHD, "sport package" 5S-FE

ADM - Australian Domestic Market
(cars produced for Australian market)
2.2 ST, labeled as "SX"
code: ST204R-BLMSKQ (MTM), ST204-BLPSKQ (ATM)
engine: 5S-FE, 135BHP
more info: all models RHD, liftbacks
2.2 ST, labeled as "SX-R"
code: ST204R-BLMSKQ (MTM), ST204-BLPSKQ (ATM)
engine: 5S-FE, 135BHP
more info: all models RHD, liftbacks
2.2 ST, labeled as "ZR"
code: ST204R-BLMSKQ (MTM), ST204-BLPSKQ (ATM)
engine: 5S-FE, 135BHP
more info: all models RHD, liftbacks
2.0 GT-four
code: ??? (not sure: ST205R-BLMKQ or ST205R-BLMVKQ)
engine: 3S-GTE, 235BHP
more info: all models RHD, liftbacks and only 77 pieces (!?)

[goferris]

2.0 SS-III
produced: 08/95 - 08/99
model: ST202-BLMZF (MTM), ST202-BLPZF (ATM)
engine: 3S-GE vvt-i, 210BHP
more info: all models RHD, liftbacks

2.2 GT Liftback, labeled as "GT"
produced: 09/93 - 12/97
model: ST204L-BLMGKA (MTM), ST204L-BLPGKA (ATM)
engine: 5S-FE, 135BHP
more info: all models LHD

2.2 ST Liftback, labeled as "GT"
produced: 12/97 - 08/99
model: ST204L-BLMSKA (MTM), ST204L-BLPSKA (ATM)
engine: 5S-FE, 135BHP
more info: all models LHD

ok 2 things i wanted to ask
according to this site and others i have talked to on the forum, not all ss-III have the B.E.A.M.S. 3s-ge with vvt-i. only the 98-99 models. the others only have a regular 3s-ge.
also i had a q about the usdm gt i quoted you about above. how is it a 2.2 st labeled as gt? that doesn't make sense to me. does that mean according to the us standards the gt title wouldn't actually fit? and what would be the difference between the gt labeled as gt and st labeled as gt? just the options that came from the factory?
the reason i ask is because according to your chart my 99 gt is actually only an st with the gt label all though it does have the same motor as the gt as well as many of the other features of the gt. just kinda confusing.

[Penkka]

EDM:

2.0 GT
produced: 11/93 - 08/99
model: ST202L-BLMGFW (LHD), ST202R-BLMGFW (RHD)
engine: 3S-GE, 170BHP
more info: all made MTM, liftbacks

Isn´t that 175bhp? at least thats what my registration says

[Rusty]

SS-II didn't have 170hp (maybe with vvt-i)

vote for sticky showing all the models and info?

[BloodyStupidDave...]

also i had a q about the usdm gt i quoted you about above. how is it a 2.2 st labeled as gt? that doesn't make sense to me. does that mean according to the us standards the gt title wouldn't actually fit? and what would be the difference between the gt labeled as gt and st labeled as gt?

The difference is that the -97 US model GT had a better trim level than the 98- US model GT. The latter has a trim level that Toyota Japan would consider to be the standard ("special") trim level.

Isn´t that 175bhp? at least thats what my registration says

It varies from country to country and year to year. I believe that for some years the official figures for the UK model was 167 or 169bhp.

This post has been edited by BloodyStupidDavey: Jan 2, 2008 - 12:52 PM

[Penkka]

Isn´t that 175bhp? at least thats what my registration says

It varies from country to country and year to year. I believe that for some years the official figures for the UK model was 167 or 169bhp.

I remember seeing something abougt this, that in JDM 3S-GE had 180bhp, but in Europe (including Finland and UK) would have had a 177bhp GT.

But did they sell those SS Celicas in UK? In finland there were only 3 models available; the 1.8 GSi, which has 115bhp, the 2.0 GT which has 175bhp and of course the GT-four.

[malpaso]

Every info I have posted I have from Toyota EPC (Except HP info. That I have collected from many internes sites). About 2.2 ST read this thread...

[projectcelica]

SS-IIIs came with a LSD from factory also.

[Penkka]

A guy told me that when a Celica has the 3S-GE it has a viscous LSD, but is it? Or is it only in the 3S-GTE?

[Rusty]

so what did the SSII get that was so special besides the GE?

[projectcelica]

Better trim and option extras, thats bout it I think.

[Penkka]

A guy told me that when a Celica has the 3S-GE it has a viscous LSD, but is it? Or is it only in the 3S-GTE?

Damn, im almost sure i got a viscous..

[GER-CELI]

In germany we have the GT with 3sge
Non facelift with 175 ps
Facelift with 170 ps and better emission

[Penkka]

I imported my car from Germany, though we have the same specs.

[GER-CELI]

your car is ´94, so you have the non-facelift with 175

[Penkka]

your car is ´94, so you have the non-facelift with 175

yeah, I kinda knew that.

[ETNRIDER]

Can someone post pics of the different models (SS-III / SS-II)? I am a little confused at the differnce in body type.