94 celica ST Engine problems, Coolant, heat, stalled, idk.. its messed up lol Options

[Superaison]

Well, first off... I hate my celica...but at the same time, I love it =[



Well.... Yesterday morning I woke up at about 7 o'clock. I dicked around, got a shower, then left at like 8 or 9 to Ashland Ohio....which is maybe a 45 min drive? ...Kay, so I got there, no issues, car ran fine, NOTHING wrong.... Well, I picked up a friend, then left Ashland.... after about 20 minutes of driving back home, I started to smell coolant, and then I noticed my engine is running REALLY hot. Well, I should have played it smart and just pulled over, but I had NO idea where I was. So I decided to keep driving, then pull over when I see some sort of marker sign, say...exit, food, etc... So I then sall the Morrow county sign, that's where I live.... So I then switched lanes to then pull over, and as I was pulling over the car just shut off on me... On I-71. I was pissed =\... Coz I see this sort of thing all the time on the side of freeway/highway. My radiator cap blew off like halfway and smoke and coolant was all over my engine bay. So i'm like.. ****.. I call my mother, she sends my brother... He has some coolant, we dump it in there just because.. Then we try to start it... It smells like **** and won't start.. So I just have my brother take me home. 5 hours later my dad and I Decide to go back to my car and see what's up, as he knows better than me with this sort of thing. He fiddles with things, takes out the thermostat(wtf is that?), and it still won't start. So idk what gave me the idea, but when trying to start it (note, now it doesn't sound like ****, or smell like ****, it actually sounded normal, it just...didn't start? ) I kinda hit the gas, and it actually "combusts?" , So I keep hitting the gas and the car doesn't shut off, but it sounds like **** (not nocking though?), and i rev it, but something doesn't sound right, but its staying running, I just have to give it gas, when I let off the gas it goes to like 800 rpm and sounds like **** but still kinda runs? I asked my dad to drive it off I-71 for me, because 1.......i'm not in the mood to drive a car that could potentially scare the **** out of me, and 2... I'm mad at my celica....it pisses me off. Anyhoo, As he drives away I see sometihng squirting out on the bottom of my engine? Idk what it was, but my guess is it was coolant.. As he was driving away grey smoke was shooting out my exhaust (I was driving behind him) for about 2 minutes, then it stopped.) Now, the only thing that happened similar to this, was the other day, I park my car, then I hear like... a water fall of water or liquid commming from my car, and I look underneatth and coolant is EVERYWHERE... So i'm like wtf... and I put more coolant in. After that, I drove to Marion ohio, and then back.. so about an hour of driving.. Then I hadn't driven the car till this morning. Before I left this morning, I checked everything, clutch stuff, powersteering fluid, brake fluid, oil, etc.. All was O.K.


Now, can anyone tell me.. What the hell is wrong with my Celica? lol. Do I need a new engine? Head gasket? Block? Water pump? I have no idea...

If I need a new engine, I will put a different one in.. idk which one though.. but i'm broke so it's gotta be from a junkyard, I do have friends that will help me put it in, though.


Please help me... Thank you.

[95CelicaST]

He took out the thermostat to see if it was blocking coolant from circulating.


You might have blown your head gasket by driving on it like that, which might mean you have little or no compression and it would have a hard time starting. Ultimately, the head gasket is your fault for driving after you saw it overheating.


Looks like you need a new head gasket (the reason for the white smoke from your exhaust is coolant in the combustion chamber), you'll want to get your head checked for warpage, and have that fixed if it is warped. New water pump, as that is probably the reason coolant is dumping out under the car (do your timing belthe while you're there).

[Spider77]

Wow, sounds like its time to do some work on your celica. Im gonna guess by this "He fiddles with things, takes out the thermostat(wtf is that?)", that you probably shouldnt do the work yourself. You really do need to get in there and get familiar with everything, but if your head is warped, you need to get that done professionally. I agree with 95 thos, if you notice your car overheating, you shouldnt keep driving on it....pull over and let it cool down.
Either way, hope you get it back up and running.

[Superaison]

Thank you.


Doing all this myself, how much would it cost to repair?

[Spider77]

Thats really going to depend on a couple of factors. Water pump (and new timing belt, tensioner, idler pully) maybe close to 90-110 depending on what you get. I know there are "kits" on Ebay. Cant speak on how well they hold up though. As far as the head, there is a way to check for warpage. But its going to involve removing it and all its components. The max warpage for the cylinder block side is .05mm, and the manifold side is .10mm. The BGB recommends getting a new head if the limits are above that. Although you can get it machined. If its just the gasket thats blown, it'll be alot cheaper. Most of it you can do yourself, but the machining...I dont know (unless you can). Cant give you a price for anything I havent done (or looked at getting done), but call some shops and get some quotes. They might be able to tell you how long it'll take as well. Then subtract labor costs. That should give you a ball park estimate.
Like I was saying from the get go (and started to trail off). Your really going to need to find out what the cause is. Then proceed from there. Although it does sound like a gasket.

[Superaison]

Well, I don't see how this all just happened out of nowhere, I really really don't. However, I guess it could be my waterpump went bad or something. But if my head is warped, I could just replace it right?

so...




1.) Water Pump
2.) Timing Belt
3.) Head Gasket
All those need replaced.

Would that fix it?

or;

1.) Water Pump
2.) Timing Belt
3.) Tentioner
4.) Idler Pully
5.) Head Gasket
All those need replaced.

And if my head is warped;

1.) Water Pump
2.) Timing Belt
3.) Tentioner
4.) Idler Pully
5.) Head Gasket
6.) Head
All those need replaced.

Just trying to get my facts straight, so I know what to look for.

[Spider77]

Lets say it was your waterpump....when was the last time it was replaced? None of these parts are meant to last forever. Parts like your waterpump, timing belt (and acc), belts, powersteering pump, dizzy, spark plug wires, etc...will have to be replaced eventually. Belts, have a limit as far as to how long they last and when they should be replaced. Its typical when you get your timing belt done, the waterpump is replaced, its just smart maintenance.
You would need at least the water pump, and a gasket (from the sounds of it).
While your doing the waterpump, might as well do the timing belt and all the related components as well.
If your head is warped, then you might as well do all the above and either get a new head or (if its salvagable) get it machined.
If you really want to get into it, you might as well check your valves and replace those if needed.
There are alot of things you could do here. Myself, if I had to remove the head and had another car to get around in, id just rebuild the whole thing. That way I can be assured that all the internals were in good working order and I wouldnt have to break it down again down the road.
Bare minimum though, waterpump, timing belt, idler pulley, tension spring. (*But hey, Im not sure if the waterpump is inline with the timing belt on an ST. If its not, then water pump and whatever belt drives it.) And head gasket if its blown ( do a compression check).

But really, you need to check out your engine, as it may not be a bad gasket,or waterpump. Maybe it could be a sensor, or your radiator has a good leak in it somewhere....just saying.

This post has been edited by Spider77: Jul 25, 2009 - 12:38 PM

[Bitter]

after getting it that hot you should get the block decked as well by a machine shop which means the whole engine needs to be torn down. you're further ahead putting in an entire engine.

it overheated because there wasnt coolant flowing, probably was low on coolant.

[Spider77]

Wow, this thing just keeps getting more and more expensive as the thread goes on. By then end of it its gonna be time for a swap.
BTW again, max warpage for the block is .05mm.

This post has been edited by Spider77: Jul 25, 2009 - 12:54 PM

[Superaison]

lol true ^^^^


Well, how can I get it 10 miles home, without making it worse...or ****ing the block if it isn't ****ed?

[Spider77]

Tow it. Or strap up to another car and slap on those hazards.

[Superaison]

I got it on a trailer and braught it home.


Didn't start lol.



It wants to though..


Any ideas to diagnose the problem further?

[Bitter]

its not going to start, check compression....you'll have under 50 in every cylinder i bet.

[Superaison]

idk how to check compression lol.

[95CelicaST]

There is a gauge you screw in to your spark plug hole and you unhook the ignitor? cable on your distributor so it doesn't start. Then turn the car over.

[Superaison]

I don't have one of those gauges...

[Spider77]

Borrow 1 if u can. If n ot they cost about 25 or so. Its a good tool 2 have anyways

[Superaison]

One of my cylinders filled with coolant, I think..


car won't start, even still.


I'm gonna look for a 4a-ge or a 4agze.... which one is more hp?

This post has been edited by Superaison: Jul 26, 2009 - 12:10 AM

[95CelicaST]

GZE. It's supercharged. Look for one from an AE101. It's DLI (disributorless ignition)


Search search search search

[match220]

Napa sells this stuff called "blue devil engine sealant", and before I hear anyone saying anything like "That stuff doesn't work", or "a $60 bottle isn't going to fix a $1000 repair", then I'll tell you from experience, it DOES seal up the cooling system IF you follow the directions on the bottle. I used to wrench for a living, my friends dad just brought me into his company as an electrician since it's easy money and cleaner work..but anyway..I digress..every car I've put this stuff in has worked, with the exception of one that had the freakin surge tank setup and no radiator cap, so I couldn't follow the directions exactly how they were on the bottle, but it was a Taurus, and fords suck anyway (except for old ones ). I've fixed cars this way that were so bad that you could be looking underneath the car while it was running and full of water/coolant, it looked like someone had a garden hose on full blast on the top of the engine and water was POURING down everywhere, only using half of the bottle stopped the leak after 5 minutes. This stuff works, and please don't anyone try to clutter up this thread with posts saying that it doesn't. I know from experience on many cars that it does, but you have to follow the directions exactly. So go buy it, IF it doesn't work, then you only wasted $60. If it does then you saved $1000, but you'll still have to find out what was leaking water in the first place. It will not fix a warped head, it will only seal up the coolant passages between the head and block where it is leaking water. It could be running rough because you got water/coolant on your spark plugs and fouled a couple of them out, or it could be running rough because of low compression. If your car runs with your old plugs, then run the Blue Devil stuff in your engine with your old plugs still in, then change them after you've run the stuff through the engine. The ash that is created by the Blue Devil stuff builds up on your plugs until the leaks are sealed up, so it ruins the plugs to where they almost won't fire. So replace them after you run the bottle in your system. If you have to replace the plugs for it to run before the bottle is put in then replace them before and after the bottle is in. Spark plugs are cheap and easy to change, if you have to buy two sets then you spend $10 more. Trust me, this works, just don't buy any other brand of stuff that claims the same thing, I've heard good things about Blue Devil, used it and found out for myself that it does work. It's blue stuff in a clear bottle with a yellow sticker, I've bought a lot of them..lol.

This post has been edited by match220: Jul 26, 2009 - 1:09 AM

[Bitter]

it will seal the engine and seal the radiator and seal the heater core as well, in this persons case its not a good idea. those products need you to be able to run the engine, he can't get his to start. at best those are a quick way to limp an already damaged engine home, at worst (and trust me i see this crap all the time) they create headaches later on.






OP, get a new radiator as well. you've gotten the system VERY hot and VERY pressurized. theres a very good chance that your current radiator is toasted and will either leak or crack shortly after getting the new engine.

[Superaison]

Alrighty.




Well, should I take this opportunity to do a swap, or make it easy on myself and get another 7a?

[Bitter]

depends on how long the car can be down for and what your budget is.

[hurley97]

Maybe one of the coolant bypass hoses busted. That's probably why it seems like it happened all of a sudden, after the engine got warm and opened the thermostat to let coolant through that's when it started leaking. Running it with no coolant warped the head and flooded coolant into one or more of the cylinders and that's why it has trouble starting and when you do get it running there's smoke coming out of the exhaust.

[Superaison]

Thank you, Hurley lol....



I smell coolant when I try to start it, so I figure its burning it up a bit...anyway, so a new engine it is.



But which one? 4age, 4agze, or 7afe?

[95CelicaST]

What is your budget? We've asked a couple times now. Which 4A-GE would you use? Which 4A-GZE would you use? Both of those will require much more money than a 7A-FE.

[Superaison]

One from a MR2, or whichever I can find in a junk yard. I will most likely just get the same one to make it simple because I Really want my car back lol. I have nothing right now =\


My budget is $250 - $400... I'm doing it all myself.

[95CelicaST]

Then go find a 7A-FE in a junkyard and drop it in. It's all you can really afford to do.

[Superaison]

Figured. It can't be too hard..

Oh, uhm... Can I leave my tranny and such in there? Or should I just yank all of that too, while i'm at it? And imma paint my engine bay and engine when it's out.... my engine bay = discusting.

[match220]

it will seal the engine and seal the radiator and seal the heater core as well, in this persons case its not a good idea. those products need you to be able to run the engine, he can't get his to start. at best those are a quick way to limp an already damaged engine home, at worst (and trust me i see this crap all the time) they create headaches later on.

I know, that's why I mentioned that he should try changing his plugs, water/coolant in the combustion chamber can create buildup on the plugs and can keep the car from running, but a loss in compression can keep the car from running also. Plugs are $5, it doesn't hurt to change them to see if that is why it isn't running. Then he will know if it is able to keep idle for 50 minutes like the bottle says. I know cars that were repeatedly overheating that I used this stuff on, and they are still running, my friends neighbors car for example has been going for over a year, it overheated a couple times to where it shut off completely and wouldn't start until it was cool again, now it has been fine for over a year. I agree that after a certain point the car can't be repaired with the bottle, but that is usually due to a warped head.

All I'm saying is pull out the plugs and check them, if they look fouled, change them and see if it runs, then use the bottle if it does.

This post has been edited by match220: Jul 26, 2009 - 6:19 PM

[Superaison]

how can I get the coolant out of one of my cylinders? i think one of them is filled with coolant..

[Bitter]

how can I get the coolant out of one of my cylinders? i think one of them is filled with coolant..

suck it out with a sucker machine, pulls a vacuum on a container and theres a long tube attached to suck stuff out.

why do you need it out? you're going to be yanking the engine and its just going to fill up with coolant again as soon as you try to crank the engine over.

[Superaison]

I'm going to replace the engine.


Anything else I should replace while i'm at it? Radiator, etc?

[GriffGirl]

Yes, read above, Bitter recommended you replace the radiator since you super pressurized it and it'll likely crack with the new motor.

Replace ALL OF YOUR GASKETS, BELTS AND HOSES. Your motor (from a yard, I'm assuming) will NOT be warranted and you won't know the history of the replacement motor. I don't care how few miles it has on it, start out right and do all the gaskets, belts and hoses. Take the opportunity to do the timing belt, water pump, and clutch, too. If you're gonna have to drop a new engine in, you might as well have a good solid fresh start so you can avoid problems like this in the future.

The lesson here: when your car overheats, PULL OVER IMMEDIATELY. If you are a couple of miles from a safe place to pull over and you MUST drive (and I mean a COUPLE, not 30), turn on your heat full blast to help relieve some of the pressure.

[95CelicaST]

Edit: beat me to it


Yeah, due to the circumstances, your radiator might have been damaged by the high pressure. Also, on the new motor, make sure you replace the timing belt while the motor is out. Since you won't know the history of the motor you might also want to replace things like gaskets (go buy a gasket kit for a 7A) water pump, thermostat, etx. General mainenance so that something simple doesn't go wrong once you have the new motor dropped in.



(I think all of this is actually just your car getting back at you for painting it flat black)

This post has been edited by 95CelicaST: Jul 27, 2009 - 11:45 AM

[Superaison]

I hate my car lol. I'm tempted to junk it. I'm trying to find an engine, but idk if i'll be able to find any. Also, by replacing my gaskets, do I have to tear my engine apart? Cause idk how to do that, and if i'm doing that I might as well rebuild my own.

[95CelicaST]

Basically you'll need to tear down the new motor to replace all of the seals and gaskets. Then you get to put it all back together. It's nice because you figure out how it all works. Go buy a torque wrench (if you don't have one already) and buy a chilton's or BGB (big green book) to walk you through opening up the motor, and putting back together properly and with the correct torque specs.


This isn't going to be a super cheap process. I hope you don't think that you'll just go to a yard, pull a motor, take it home, and drop it in.

[Spider77]

If it was only as easy as just dropping it in. Seriously, you have a real slim budget. If your block and head are able to be saved, then thats the route id go (if it were me). But if its way outta spec, might as well get a new engine. Either way, your gonna be down for a while. Even on Ebay, a typical rebuild kit is gonna run you half of you budget, some run upwards to 300. If you take that into factor, rebuilding it will be the best way to go (although on the kits you probly dont need the pistons). Then add up the labor involved with milling the head (which may not need to be done, I dunno), and your going to be well over your 400 mark. Just did some shopping for you and even the bare minimum of parts from rockauto is gonna run you 350, plus shipping. so again, over your 400 mark. Take into account that with a "new" used engine (that shouldnt run more than 450-500) and the parts you'll have to put into that one. Your looking upwards of maybe 800ish. So, if your old engine block/head are not that jacked up, your best bet will be to rebuild the existing engine. But either way, your going to be over budget.

[Superaison]

My friends dad knows of a place that sells engines I can just plop in there. I don't wanna have to replace anything internally on the engine, I think it'll be hard enough just plopping the thing in there.

[Spider77]

Oh, your just gonna drop an engine in there. As long as you trust the place your getting it from, then go for it.

[Superaison]

I also had this in mind:

15:34:45 ‹Superaison› how much do junkyards averagly give for a shell to a car?
27/07/2009 15:35:05 ‹boosted185› oh nevermind, i found a link i think
27/07/2009 15:35:16 ‹qatar11› Give?
27/07/2009 15:35:20 ‹qatar11› they might give you thanks
27/07/2009 15:35:24 ‹boosted185› depends on the size of the car...ive seen from 300-800 for a BARE shall, class already removed
27/07/2009 15:35:39 ‹Superaison› say a coupe celica shell..... lol...rolling
27/07/2009 15:35:40 ‹boosted185› glass**
27/07/2009 15:35:48 ‹Superaison› glass still there
27/07/2009 15:35:54 ‹boosted185› are you wanting to buy one, or take one TOO a junk yard?
27/07/2009 15:35:55 ‹Superaison› doors not there
27/07/2009 15:35:58 ‹Superaison› well
27/07/2009 15:36:52 ‹Superaison› i want a liftback, and a dude is selling one for $400 (due to the fact i've already taken the fenders and bumpers off it for my coupe) and it has a lifter ticking/nocking.... so I was thinking of frankenstiening the 2 cars, then parting off what I dont use, and junking the coupe shell... maybe lol.
27/07/2009 15:37:03 ‹Superaison› idk just curious, I <3 liftback celicas... a lot
27/07/2009 15:37:24 * haribo1977 quit (timeout)
27/07/2009 15:37:26 ‹boosted185› not a bad idea!
27/07/2009 15:37:45 ‹boosted185› I do too
27/07/2009 15:38:25 ‹Superaison› i feel i could come out ahead
27/07/2009 15:38:32 ‹boosted185› If nothing else, you could take the leftover parts to a metal scrap yard, rather than a car junk yard. Just make sure you have a title to give them
27/07/2009 15:38:32 ‹Superaison› i have $400 exactly lmao
27/07/2009 15:38:45 ‹Superaison› think I could come out ahead?
27/07/2009 15:38:59 ‹Superaison› was thinking of parting one of the celi's here + ebay
27/07/2009 15:39:02 ‹boosted185› I'm sure you could get 400 in scrap
27/07/2009 15:39:25 ‹Superaison› well i'm just curious if it'd be a good investment, I want a running car, but If I could come out ahead with a liftback i'd do that lol
27/07/2009 15:39:30 ‹coosthunder› oh for those of you whom i shared that video with yestarday the civic hatch is running a h2b bored to a 2.4
27/07/2009 15:39:56 ‹boosted185› I'd go for it if I were you Super
27/07/2009 15:40:26 ‹boosted185› what extra parts would you have available?
27/07/2009 15:40:32 * Defgeph quit (timeout)
27/07/2009 15:40:41 ‹Superaison› everything... other than fenders + bumper... and like 1 engine
27/07/2009 15:40:52 ‹Superaison› but id have an auto tranny, ecu, full interior to 2 celi, etc
27/07/2009 15:40:53 ‹boosted185› Brent needs a few SMALL things and Leanna (wickedcustomsinc) needs doors BADLY
27/07/2009 15:42:26 ‹Superaison› my car is a 5spd
27/07/2009 15:43:00 ‹Superaison› id have to convert the other car to stick...which...would be easy imo, due to the fact id have 2 celicas 10 feet from eachother, 1 being a 5spd coupe and the other a auto liftback.......
27/07/2009 15:43:15 ‹Superaison› but the hard part would be frankensteining the 2 engines i think



What you guys think? lol.


I can't pick, frankenstien 2 cars and possibly learn and come out ahead, or 2 just get an engine.. no matter what i'll be without a car for a while, though...

[Spider77]

Why not? Before you go jumping into any projects, if youve never done thing like this before, I suggest getting the service manual, or at least a chiltons. And when your done, you can part it out.

[Superaison]

What would you do? lol

[Spider77]

That depends. Your pretty much implying that your going to take the good parts off both engines, and make one functional engine? Well, I would just rebuild my engine with the 400 (although I might raise my budget). Reason being, I would have no idea what might be wrong with the other engine. I know you said it has a bad lifter, but what else dont you know about that engine. Lets assume that you "frankenstien" both engines. Well, your pretty much going to break them both down. And still have to spend the 200-300 for gaskets, belts, water pump, new plugs, wires, all that good stuff. So you back at square one, the money issue.
The only advantage of having both cars is that once your done you can try to make back some money by parting out everything you have double of. Then haul the shell to a salvage yard, which all they really are going to want is the glass/engine. Either way you do it, its going to be a good learning experience. And your going to be looking at some downtime. While your waiting, id start stripping and labeling. However you look at it, that engine is going to come out. Might as well take out yours, and check the cylinder head warpage and engine block warpage. You might find that you can get away with using it as is, or getting a little work done on it. This (click me) is really the first thing you should invest in before tearing down that engine. I have one, and its by far the best investment I could of ever made for my celica.
Sorry for rambling on.....

[Superaison]

Rambling is OK when its advice.. I like advice, especially when I don't know where to start. But boosted185 is hopefully going to help me out.. He is checking a junkyard tomorrow for an engine and if its working for me. I will go from there most likely. So far this thread has been VERY helpful, in my opinion.