k series swap? Options

[dliverance]

Ok so I have a friend who owns a Honda shop. He has 3 k series engines laying around. Last night I asked him how much he would sell me one for and he said $300. I was just asking for ****s and grins but it really got my gears going. Right now my plan for the Celica is a Beams. The Beams would cost me some 3k to do properly but if I can swap in a k series and get it running for under 3k, I think It might be a fun project. What do you guys think?

Right now I know the axles, motor mounts, and the whole inverted intake/exhaust manifolds will be an issue. what else should I think about?

[Takumi-FujiWaraS...]

Harness and kpro (Most who do the swap want to tune to get the most reliable power out of it and kpro isn't cheap nor is a tune for it), trans mounts. If it's not a k20a2 (or jdm equivalent) or k24 i wouldn't waste my time the k20a3 isn't impressive at all, you'd be looking at more than 3k unless you can do the fab work yourself the kpro isn't cheap and a tune around here is around for kpro $500+.

I would scrap the idea unless you've got money to burn.

This post has been edited by Takumi-FujiWaraST: Jun 17, 2012 - 1:35 PM

[kurt95gt]

No!!!!!!!! Not a honda motor
If your looking to do a cheaper swap start looking into a toyota v6
Itll have more power that the beams an will cost alot less
My 1mz with harness an computer only cost me 600

[dliverance]

The kpro can come later. My buddy can tune the pro and he has a dyno in the shop so I'm not too worried about that. The trans mount shouldn't be too difficult to fab up. I'll have to see which k series motors he has tho.

Kurt, That might be something to look into. I'm gonna have to look into your build thread.

[Takumi-FujiWaraS...]

For $600ish i would go with what kurt has said/done even if it cost you a bit more.

[dliverance]

Damn theres a 1mz for sale locally on craigs for $450

[kurt95gt]

I ive got around 3000 in my swap but thats due to alot of trial an error
Ive got probably around 2500 in what i realky needed an that includes a engine hoist an tein drop springs an a few other little non swap related parts

[zfjohnson07]

How much horse does the 1mz have, what's ur gas mileage like, and was it easy to get it, I'm trying to read your thread but am on my phone

[Lil-Joe101]

Tho as interesting as it seems, cross breeding Honda and Toyota parts, specificly a motor, is considered a mortal sin in my my eyes. Shun the Honda tuner, shuunnn, ssshhhhhhhuuuunnnnnn, lol.

But seriously if u think u can make it work go for it. dff would be an interesting build/thread to fallow granted it gets completed.

This post has been edited by Lil-Joe101: Jun 17, 2012 - 3:21 PM

[dliverance]

I know it's blasphemy. Even my GF said she doesn't want my car to sound like a lawn mower.

[Lil-Joe101]

I know it's blasphemy. Even my GF said she doesn't want my car to sound like a lawn mower.

Yeah why are more and more Honda's sounding this way? My Accord and CRX both had deep tones. Wut gives? Its so annoying.

[kurt95gt]

How much horse does the 1mz have, what's ur gas mileage like, and was it easy to get it, I'm trying to read your thread but am on my phone

Its only got around 200hp but its got alot higher torque( cant remember how much at the moment)

according to my obd2 scanner my mpgs is aright around 36 at highway speeds
But ive only been able to put about 160 mile on her so far
But i only used alil over a 1/4 tank doing so an that wad with some aggressive driving mixed in

[dliverance]

wheel horsepower?

[zfjohnson07]

Was it hard to put in

[kurt95gt]

I beleave its whp not 100% thoan it wasnt hard to put in at all
no different than anyother motor lol

[BonzaiCelica]

problem with a k20 or 2zz swap is the fact that the header will run right into your power steering rack. since header is on t he back side of the engine and intake manifold towards the front where the radiator is

[Redmann813]

peak bhp and torque for the 1mz are both around 200

[zfjohnson07]

Does it feel like 200 or more since its light?

[kurt95gt]

Depends on how your driving it
At small light throttle inputs it feels like a 5s
But get alittle throttle happy an she put you in the seat in every gear

[zfjohnson07]

well, after reading your project thread, i think ill just stick with getting a short block and fixing my 7afe, and then in a year or so put a 3sgte in it.

[kurt95gt]

My thread probably makes it seem alot scarier that it is cuz alot of it came down to trial an error since theres no real good info for this swap into the celica that an i had to make all my custom parts
now for a small fee.smaay will make the motor mount . Mr220v does a great job on the harness
Ive thought about getting in touch with one of the mods to make a small list of whats in my swap to put in the sticky since i know theres alot of missinfo in my thread cuz of other stuff ive done along the way
its really no harder than a 3s swap

[zfjohnson07]

lol maybe my next car!

[dliverance]

Well my curiosity is peaked. Did you have to do some crazy axle work or did you use the stock gt axles. Also, how does it feel without the lsd?

[kurt95gt]

Since i used the stock gt trans im still running stock gt axles. The only crazy work i had to do was make a custom pass side mount an a custom axle mount.
The only hard part was figuring out what parts would work best
Like i have a 96 motor so it matchs the stock fuel system but i had to use a 97 ecu so i could still read codes an since i had to run the 97 ecu i had to run a 97 maf too since it sends info alittle differently to the ecu
i had to run an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator too because of the 97 ecu so i could bump up thr psi in the system.
Like i said trial an error till it was right.

It feels good without the lsd. Although at first i faught torque steer because one tire was getting more power than the other an would feel like it was ripping the wheel out of my hand but after i gut use to it on hard acceleration its not a problem now

[Smaay]

are you in Hollywood CA or eleswhere? im in Lancaster CA just north of hollywood and im doing a 1mz swap in my 6th gen. once i know how to do everything, it will be really easy to do another one.

[95CelicaST]

Power will depend on the year of 1MZ. My 94 1MZ with a LinkECU+tune, simple intake, headers, and exhaust makes 185whp/201wtq. Been getting low-mid 20's on MPG, because the S54 is geared so short and my commute to work is almost 50 miles a day at freeway speeds... I live in 5th gear @ 4k rpms.

If you had a 97+ with VVT-i you might find my numbers would be stock figures due to refinements in the motor. Kurt, you're probably ~10whp/10wtq shy of my numbers, but out of sheer interest I would recommend getting it dyno'ed. The v6 is lighter than the 5S so you're basically doubling the power output and shedding weight at the same time. The 1MZ came in a ton of other Toyotas, so they're cheap and plentiful.

[Smaay]

dang triple post!!!

the 1MZ didnt come with VVT until 2003. the only problem with that is that a VVT 1MZ and 3MZ never were mated to a 5 speed trans, therefore it wouldnt be legal in CA. now you can get around that like i am by using a 3.3L 3MZ block with non VVT 1MZ heads. basically creating a 3.3L 1MZ with a slightly higher compression. im expecting to make 200 to the wheels.

[dliverance]

I'm in Hollywood FL. I have to look into OBD1 1mz. So far it looks pretty promising. If I can get 200 to the wheels that would be a dream.

[95CelicaST]

Triple post because 6gc went down for a bit.

[mak5603]

Pretty sure it's like 200 to the crank, i've read as low as 160 whp, 180 ft lbs. torque. Not even close to 100hp per liter.

Y U NO like 3sgte?!

[dliverance]

3sgte is nice but I already have one turbo headache lol.

[mak5603]

3sgte is nice but I already have one turbo headache lol.

True that. What about k20 in the miata?

[Smaay]

too bad FL, i dont know their rules but i dont know why you need to stay ODB I.

[dliverance]

I don't have to stay OBD1 I'm just choosing to. There aren't many vehicle restrictions in FL. As for the k20 in the miata, they're working on a kit for that. I doubt it'll happen though.

[BonzaiCelica]

a k20 was put in a s2000 before. So I don't see why not

[99gt3sge]

if its a k20z1, a2, or z3 its worth it. i wanted to to that swap on a 5th gen but ended up doing a 3sgte swap. i driven a lot of swaped cars and by far the best n/a hands down has been a k motor. they pull out the weak 2zz out of the elise and mrs and put a k and it toys with a 2zz elise. even if its a k24 u can make more power than a 5s, and u can always swap the head later. it would be a sick ass sleeper ,if you do it post pics.

[BonzaiCelica]

get a redtop with blacktop internals.

[mak5603]

^^ sounds like an excessive amount of money for a super small gain..

[BonzaiCelica]

blacktops go for about $500 cheaper than redtop. for 10 extra hp and dual vvt-i its basically a k20.

[95CelicaST]

Hux Racing makes an adapter plate to mate a K-series with an E153, so it'll bolt in with a fabricated passenger side motor mount.

http://www.huxracing.com/#!Products%20and%20Pics/cco3

[dliverance]

interesting. I would have to come up with something crazy for the exhaust tho.

[mak5603]

blacktops go for about $500 cheaper than redtop. for 10 extra hp and dual vvt-i its basically a k20.

A beams with +10hp does not compete with a k20 just because the hp figures are similar. And that is a totally stock k20, and as we all know there is endless k20 aftermarket support and zero BEAMS aftermarket support.

I guess the redtop with blacktop internals would be cool if you wanted low 200 hp figures, just most people eventually want to upgrade.

[dliverance]

200whp/160-200wtq and 2600 lbs is my target area. Thats right about where my mini cooper is and it's very fun. I do agree with mak5603 on the aftermarket thing. I like being able to find parts at the local auto parts store.

[PhoenixTech]

OK, I really didn't read through this entire thread, because face it. Honda...not so interesting. regardless. What you SHOULD do, is buy that K-series for $300 and then resell it for what it's actually worth. You do that, and you've just funded your entire 3sgte swap. Honda nuts sell their first born children for k-series! easy money maker.

[dliverance]

I just got off the phone with the guy and he said it comes with the bellhousing adapter, flywheel adapter, starter adapter, motor mount, axle mount and some other things. He has two done so far. The price would be somewhere around $700 he said for the first few units.

[Smaay]

adapter for what? to mount it to a B series trans?

[dliverance]

To mount the E153 tranny to the k series.

[kurt95gt]

To mount the E153 tranny to the k series.

If a e153 will mount to it then you could still use the stock s54 since the. Mounting points. Are the same.
Then you could use 3 of the tock gt mounts an the stock axles
So you could save some money.
But at the same time still wouldn't want to see a cross breed

[dliverance]

Yeah I'm thinking the same thing but it is very tempting. The kit even includes the custom mount. All I would need after that is a harness, exhaust, and ecu.

[99gt3sge]

now they sell the harness so you can wire it to basically any chasi, check out chasebays, or rywire for those harness swaps. and it may possible that the swap header that the honda use when swapping a k might easier to modify to your car, than fabricating one from scratch. again post up pics if you decide to do it.