motor swap advice pleaseeeee!!!, motor swap Options

[96celiest]

hi my names logan i have a 96 celica st 5spd. i wanna put a faster motor in it. should i use a) a gt caldina motor b) a toyota supra beams vv-ti or just whatever is best.. please help me out im new with the whole celie world and im trying to do my celie some good lovin tlc. so please get back to me. Thanks!

[mkernz22]

First off, welcome to the forum.
Secondly, read up on some of the swap threads on here too, lots of useful information.

There is no "Toyota Supra" Beams Engine with VVT-i, it's the Beams Redtop Engine with VVT-i that was in some of the SS-III Celica's and possibly a different version too.
The Caldina motor is the ST215 engine (3SGTE), which I do not believe has been documented too well yet on here, but I know a couple people have messed with them before. Your best bet would be to go with the ST205 3SGTE engine, which is out of this generation's GT4.
You could also go with the V6 route with the 1MZFE if you want to keep it N/A as well as have an engine that is in the USA and has parts that are easy to order at any auto parts store.

[PaddyTapps]

Welcome to the world of 6GC's Logan. this should help you out too:

Feasible Swaps

[Smaay]

the 1MZ will be the simplest of V6 swaps, but if you get creative in shopping for parts, installing a 3MZ with 1MZ intake manifold and electronics will be the best combination. the 2GR is the newest V6 and makes more power but its a difficult swap. its a DBW setup.

[Malek]

First off, welcome to the forum.
Secondly, read up on some of the swap threads on here too, lots of useful information.

There is no "Toyota Supra" Beams Engine with VVT-i, it's the Beams Redtop Engine with VVT-i that was in some of the SS-III Celica's and possibly a different version too.
The Caldina motor is the ST215 engine (3SGTE), which I do not believe has been documented too well yet on here, but I know a couple people have messed with them before. Your best bet would be to go with the ST205 3SGTE engine, which is out of this generation's GT4.
You could also go with the V6 route with the 1MZFE if you want to keep it N/A as well as have an engine that is in the USA and has parts that are easy to order at any auto parts store.

But there is a VVTi Supra Engine 2JZ VVTi

Anyway, welcome to the forum Logan! I recently completed my 3rd Gen 3SGTE swap. It has been done numerous times on this site and is well documented. You can easily do it with the resources on this site.

I came from Subarus so all I really know is turbo haha 3SGTE was my best option. V6 turbo? Now that's an option haha

Good luck

[mkernz22]

First off, welcome to the forum.
Secondly, read up on some of the swap threads on here too, lots of useful information.

There is no "Toyota Supra" Beams Engine with VVT-i, it's the Beams Redtop Engine with VVT-i that was in some of the SS-III Celica's and possibly a different version too.
The Caldina motor is the ST215 engine (3SGTE), which I do not believe has been documented too well yet on here, but I know a couple people have messed with them before. Your best bet would be to go with the ST205 3SGTE engine, which is out of this generation's GT4.
You could also go with the V6 route with the 1MZFE if you want to keep it N/A as well as have an engine that is in the USA and has parts that are easy to order at any auto parts store.

But there is a VVTi Supra Engine 2JZ VVTi

Anyway, welcome to the forum Logan! I recently completed my 3rd Gen 3SGTE swap. It has been done numerous times on this site and is well documented. You can easily do it with the resources on this site.

I came from Subarus so all I really know is turbo haha 3SGTE was my best option. V6 turbo? Now that's an option haha

Good luck

I know there is a 2jz with vvti lol but he said the beams in a supra so I just wanted to correct him on that

[96celiest]

Thank u everyone for the corrections and advice it will be well needed throughout this. I will be in touch everyone. I will do my research and relay my questions. Once again thank you the advice should be very helpful

[mgnt232]

Welcome
deff read up on the forum. Theres so many answers to questions you would not even think of just in the stickies.
GL i would advise a 3sgte swap. IMO best for your money and not all that much needs to be changed.

[96celiest]

Hi everyone hows the celies? hahaha i just thought id let you know i have decided to go with the 3sgte motor. now my questions. 1.) were could i get a reasonably good priced front clip and 2.) what do you guys think about right hand drive conversions from the front clip if it were even right hand drive. 3.)would it be hard or no seeing how its just on the other side? i know i would have to relocate alot of stuff like pedals and steering shaft but would it be worth it in the long run? mainly i just wanna find a good front clip 3sgte. Thanks guys links would be greatly appreciated if ya could help im only 17 and im doin this all on my own id like to get to meet some of you celie guys to. do u guys have any yearly meets or anything like that?

[JoshuaM]

Hi everyone hows the celies? hahaha i just thought id let you know i have decided to go with the 3sgte motor. now my questions. 1.) were could i get a reasonably good priced front clip and 2.) what do you guys think about right hand drive conversions from the front clip if it were even right hand drive. 3.)would it be hard or no seeing how its just on the other side? i know i would have to relocate alot of stuff like pedals and steering shaft but would it be worth it in the long run? mainly i just wanna find a good front clip 3sgte. Thanks guys links would be greatly appreciated if ya could help im only 17 and im doin this all on my own id like to get to meet some of you celie guys to. do u guys have any yearly meets or anything like that?

Read Ricochet1490's build thread if you are interested in the RHD side of things;

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=81373

Personally, I would start off simple and just go with the engine swap. It is very well documented on here, and will get you going quickly. Would it be worth it? You tell me, I don't believe there is any real advantage, other than the 'JDM-ness' (And possibly some ergonomics if that suits you). The conversion isn't so simple, and I'm not sure what your local laws are, but it is always more dangerous driving on the other side of the car to everybody else, which is probably not the best when you are still fresh out on your license.

[96celiest]

I still need to find out were and how I can get a front clip for an average price.

[96celiest]

[size="3"][/size]hey guys could u guys send some links for a 96 3sgte front clip

[Box]

1MZ-FE is the way to go. Much cheaper, and if anything ever goes wrong you can actually get parts for it. Unless you go with the 2nd gen 3S-GTE anyway. Then the 1MZ would be better at that rate. Still even against the 3rd gen 3S-GTE I'd take the 1MZ-FE. Only talking a difference of 50 hp(stock vs stock), and you can run the 1MZ-FE on regular fuel and get incredibly good gas mileage. Besides that the 3S-GTE is heavier and has lag, so that 50 hp extra really doesn't equate to much over the 1MZ-FE. Plus the exhaust sounds better, and that's what really matters at the end of the day. Being you're 17 cheap and reliable are your two best friends and the 1MZ-FE meets that. Don't have to worry about a turbo and all of the associated problems, and you can get parts cheaply from any local parts house. 200 hp in a 2,400 pound car is more than enough, especially for someone that just got their license. You get to **** with all of the Honda kids, get 30+ mpg on regular, and have a reliable engine that has parts everywhere. Sounds like a winner to me.

This post has been edited by Box: Apr 19, 2013 - 9:29 PM

[96celiest]

I'm trying to stick with fwd though could I get a 3sgte and only hook up the front and disconnect the rear axle or would that do harm to the transfer case. I'm trying to do a good easy swap that won't leave me stranded ya know?

[Box]

The 1MZ-FE is used in FWD applications, just rip it out of a Camry/Solara or the other fortitude of vehicles that used it. Though only the Camry/Solara offered the 1MZ-FE with the E153 manual transmission. The 3S-GTE you'll have to use the S54 transmission from the GT Celica or another transmission that'd fit. You can't just "cap" off the AWD transmission, it'll burn out.

So, before we jump ahead of ourselves do you have the $3,000 to $5,000 or more to do a 3S-GTE swap? Even if you do think about all of the cars that'll buy, plus once you figure in what'd you'd get out of your car. That'll buy a 7GC GT-S or RSX Type S. Do you have the ability and knowledge to do the swap? Or do you have access to people that do? Not trying to put a damper on your spirits, but these are things you need to think about. We've all been there, wanting to take on a project at your age. I'm not too terribly far from where you are now myself. I've been there and done that, trying to do a project car as your main method of transportation is stupid(at any age). What's not fun is not being able to go anywhere because your car won't run. Unless your parents have the money to sink into it and have access to someone to do the work, I advise you sell the Celica and buy something else if you want something faster. If you want a good looking and reliable car that gets good gas mileage that'll take you through the rest of high school and college, I suggest you keep the Celica.

[Smaay]

You can't just "cap" off the AWD transmission, it'll burn out.

yes you can, you take off the transfer case, get an MR2 diff and cover plate and you have a FWD trans.

[Box]

Somewhere through the stickies it says you can't, so that's what I went with. Still, without the modifications you mentioned you would just burn it out.

[Smaay]

you could somehow cap the transfer case and use it as a FWD but why? you would need ST 205 axles which probably come with the trans so that mute. but you would not "burn" anything up if you did that.

[1994Celica]

If your celica is your only means of transport I wouldn't engine swap. It sucks working on your dd especially major work. If you want to improve your celica, improve the brakes and handling.

[96celiest]

OK thanks everyone for the replays!! But um does anyone know were I can find the 96 3sgte rear wheel drive setup I can't find any anywhere? I can't even find a nice 3sgte yet alone with the rear assembly. It sucks being in Pennsylvania I cant find any parts cars there so scarce around here only a couple and everyone who owns them seems like theyve had them for awhile and stillll love em! But yea I'd appreciate a good reply thank you everyone for the help idk what I'd do without it

[Box]

you could somehow cap the transfer case and use it as a FWD but why? you would need ST 205 axles which probably come with the trans so that mute. but you would not "burn" anything up if you did that.

I recall it had to do with putting all of the stress of moving the car on the front wheels only when it was meant to apply the power to all four. Again just going off the sticky info.

[Box]

OK thanks everyone for the replays!! But um does anyone know were I can find the 96 3sgte rear wheel drive setup I can't find any anywhere? I can't even find a nice 3sgte yet alone with the rear assembly. It sucks being in Pennsylvania I cant find any parts cars there so scarce around here only a couple and everyone who owns them seems like theyve had them for awhile and stillll love em! But yea I'd appreciate a good reply thank you everyone for the help idk what I'd do without it

Your best bet would be to buy off eBay. Once again this is where the allure of the 1MZ-FE comes in. I'm willing to bet you can go to your nearest junkyard and find one.

[JoshuaM]

OK thanks everyone for the replays!! But um does anyone know were I can find the 96 3sgte rear wheel drive setup I can't find any anywhere? I can't even find a nice 3sgte yet alone with the rear assembly. It sucks being in Pennsylvania I cant find any parts cars there so scarce around here only a couple and everyone who owns them seems like theyve had them for awhile and stillll love em! But yea I'd appreciate a good reply thank you everyone for the help idk what I'd do without it

Your best bet would be to buy off eBay. Once again this is where the allure of the 1MZ-FE comes in. I'm willing to bet you can go to your nearest junkyard and find one.

We take your point and appreciate your input... We ALL know that you have fallen in love with 1MZ, however the constant push to make everybody go your way is getting tiring. I'm sure the OP has considered this option, but has decided to pursue the 3S-GTE (Which is a far more popular option), and we should accept this decision unless they request further input. Maybe you could fulfill your needs by getting one yourself

Generally though, I feel that the OP may be rushing into this, and in my personal opinion should hold off until they have thoroughly read many of the great build threads and resources on this website and are confidant making this swap.

[Box]

Actually up until now I'd have told him to sell it and buy something with a V8 already, so give me some credit here. The 3S-GTE just isn't feasible in his case, it's not like over in the land of Vegemite and monster spiders where getting Japanese cars and parts is easy. He's 17 in the states(east coast of all places) with what I assume to be a limited budget, the 1MZ-FE is the better choice in his case. Everyone telling him to go ahead with a more expensive swap, that god forbid he needs parts for it, is just appalling to me. The 1MZ-FE won't be that much slower(200 hp in a 2400 pound car is more than enough for a new driver), will be more reliable, has readily accessible parts, and still gets good fuel mileage on regular fuel. All things important to a 17 year old that this is his only car and has limited funding. If mommy and daddy can spare the money for the 3S swap and to maintain it, then by all means go with that.

This post has been edited by Box: Apr 23, 2013 - 1:12 AM

[Smaay]

im gonna agree 100% with Box on this one. parts are available, its half the price of a 3S and power wise its acceptable. if the OP is creative he can get a 3MZ and make the same about of power stock for stock. i have the dyno plots to proove it. i will beat any stock 3S on the street. now raising the boost will make it faster.

[mgnt232]

well anyhow while you all brawl it out on this guys post lol.
I do agree your moving fast into this, especially at such a young age. As far as the rear you need to do alot more research, i had talked with Jim (before he ****ed the world) about it and its quite difficult to source and do the conversion, and he had alot of connections and was importing from Japan himself. And there was a bit of custom work involved. I dont remember exactly this was like two years ago. Not to say its impossible but its going to take so much as for now id stick with fwd.
And just look on ebay for a front clip. Its going to be like 3-4 grand but thats only the beginning or the money your going to spend. IMHO id save like 6k before even thinking about it, especially if its your DD.
Not to mention if you dont have all the tools, parts missing from the clip, dont know 100% what your doing, ect.
I'd like to see another 6gc evolve but take your time. I get the feeling you are thinking this can happen quickly.

[onnaj]

Ofcourse there's always the 20V option. Fits right on your ST motor brackets and you can use your own gearbox. I'd advise using the Blacktop instead of the silvertop except when you plan for boosting it later on. The silvertop is way overrated by Toyota in means of HP, but the Blacktop will achieve the HP given by Toyota.

But for all swaps counts: Think about your budget. If you think you're going to spend $1300, double it! It's always, i mean ALWAYS, much more expensive then you'd think.

If i could choose and lived in the US, i'd definitely go for the V6 swap. But i'm in Holland.

Ofcourse there's always the 20V option. Fits right on your ST motor brackets and you can use your own gearbox. I'd advise using the Blacktop instead of the silvertop except when you plan for boosting it later on. The silvertop is way overrated by Toyota in means of HP, but the Blacktop will achieve the HP given by Toyota.

But for all swaps counts: Think about your budget. If you think you're going to spend $1300, double it! It's always, i mean ALWAYS, much more expensive then you'd think.

If i could choose and lived in the US, i'd definitely go for the V6 swap. But i'm N/A minded . The 3SGTE is a nice swap, but has bad fuel consumption very expensive parts (like the blacktop btw;)), etc.

Because the V6's are nowhere to find in holland i bought a 4AGE 20V Blacktop. Lightweight engine, could use my old motor mounts, own gearbox, nice technique for an older engine, etc. Even the wiring of the 7AFE is a bit similair like the Blacktop one.

This post has been edited by onnaj: Apr 24, 2013 - 5:02 AM