Calendar 2014 picture selection, VOTE HERE!!! (until 15th of September) Options

[malpaso]

It is here. The voting. I do not want to make the same mistake as last year so will making voting public. I wanted from everyone who wanted to vote to pick 12 pictures from the list. Not less. Not more. Sadly there were people voting just for one or two cars and ignored effort of others. I know it is not easy to pick 12 (so in fact eliminate 8 nice pictures from 20). So I made decision to give chance to two groups of people.

a) I picked my favorite 12 pictures (you can find them on the bottom of this post). If you like my selection OR you just want your calendar (no matter what car is used) vote for DEFAULT. Default vote gives one vote to each car in "default selection".

b) YOU want to pick your own 12 favorite pictures. Vote for OWN SELECTION and post your 12 favorite nick names in this topic (just writing 12 nick names is fine). Own selection vote gives also one vote to each car in your selection.

- Voting ends on 15th of September 2013 (so in two weeks)
- All votes for all entries will be counted together the winner list will be created.

NOTE: after I saw whole group of pictures I just can not help my self but see as bit better calendar cover picture from IfWeChoose not the originally mentioned one from Tigawoods.

vs

So you can mention this in your own selection posts as well (keep cover original OR nominate new one)

This way everyone can check results, everyone can see progress of voting. Below you can see all 20 pictures I received in high resolution = below are all only valid subscribers for voting:

1) Timmyface

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2) Tigawoods

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3) Nial

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4) marcov

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5) JoshuaM

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6) czwalga

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7) malpaso

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8) rentaspace

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9) cheela

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10) IfWeChoose

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11) Rusty

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12) RoyO

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13) HistoriCo

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14) drumbum

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15) UndaGrwnD

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16) BlackWidow

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17) chromed

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18) williamw1987

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19) Ehrgeiz

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20) PegGTS

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DEFAULT SELECTION (WITH NEW CALENDAR COVER)

IfWeChoose - the cover

Timmyface
Tigawoods
marcov
RoyO
malpaso
cheela
Rusty
HistoriCo
drumbum
UndaGrwnD
chromed
Ehrgeiz



This post has been edited by malpaso: Sep 2, 2013 - 4:59 AM

[JoshuaM]

Looks very good, but my selection for my photo was;

[malpaso]

Looks very good, but my selection for my photo was;

...

My bad. It was not clear for me. Sorry for that mistake. I will correct it. Than means I also need to change that default. This picture (even great) is in my personal scale lower than other submitted. Thanks for letting me know soon enough.

NOW UPDATED!

This post has been edited by malpaso: Sep 2, 2013 - 5:01 AM

[Chromed]

I choose default selection with cover by Tigawoods

[Ehrgeiz]

I choose default selection with cover by Tigawoods

Me too. Somehow the Tigawoods cover looks so professional.

[Tigawoods]

I outsource all my work to china now


Since I am biased. The cover choice it up to everyone else

[JoshuaM]

Looks very good, but my selection for my photo was;

...

My bad. It was not clear for me. Sorry for that mistake. I will correct it. Than means I also need to change that default. This picture (even great) is in my personal scale lower than other submitted. Thanks for letting me know soon enough.

NOW UPDATED!

Well do whatever you think, if you prefer the original you can use that - I supplied the full resolution shots of both.

[JoshuaM]

BTW Malpaso, it has been decided already to use the single A4 calendar design, right?

If so, I think it would be really good to see how the images will look with the generic calendar overlay on them as some images suit this much more than others when selecting the final design.

[JoshuaM]

My selection as it stands would be for the default selection with the original Tigawoods cover, and the following change;

replacing

[malpaso]

I outsource all my work to china now

Since I am biased. The cover choice it up to everyone else

China? India! Mate, your job is great and much MUCH more professional than my ever can be. I'm just silly enthusiast. You has gift obvious for a first sight. As you can see comments (people want your cover) not my idiotic ideas with the change .

BTW Malpaso, it has been decided already to use the single A4 calendar design, right?

If so, I think it would be really good to see how the images will look with the generic calendar overlay on them as some images suit this much more than others when selecting the final design.

In terms of picture change I just followed your request and since there were no votes I did that change with no more asking. Now I can not do any more changes. Other people already voted.

There are 8 damn nice pictures that must be removed to have 12 calendar pictures and it is really not easy choice to do that. At least for me. I simply hate this part. I would like to use all just to show respect to everyone who wanted to participate. "Default" selection is my personal preference. There is hundreds of people than can share with own - way different from my one - selection. About your pictures I already wrote in my post I put higher (in my personal scale) original piece you had between submitted. The same way I liked more "crow picture" of Cheela's Celica or previous submission from Ehrgeiz (front shot) because after his change there are 3 white Celicas from the rear and I wanted to pick just one (in matter of fact I picked again his because I liked it the most from those three submitted)...

In terms of calendar layout I remember last year it was 50:50. So some wanted A4 and some A3 design. I like more A4 design but in terms of effort A3 is better. Discussion about this can start in separate topic please. Overall inputs from me:

- A4 design means picture with small calendar grid in it. Where depends on picture (where it fits) and how good/not good looking it should be is the question. Can not say till I see 12 winners.
- A3 design means picture on one page and just grid on the second. No issues with anything. All picture layouts will work (just fit it nicely to A4 page and done)... I have not much time now so it can save me some effort like this = I support simple A3 design after all.

[JoshuaM]

In terms of picture change I just followed your request and since there were no votes I did that change with no more asking. Now I can not do any more changes. Other people already voted.

There are 8 damn nice pictures that must be removed to have 12 calendar pictures and it is really not easy choice to do that. At least for me. I simply hate this part. I would like to use all just to show respect to everyone who wanted to participate. "Default" selection is my personal preference. There is hundreds of people than can share with own - way different from my one - selection. About your pictures I already wrote in my post I put higher (in my personal scale) original piece you had between submitted. The same way I liked more "crow picture" of Cheela's Celica or previous submission from Ehrgeiz (front shot) because after his change there are 3 white Celicas from the rear and I wanted to pick just one (in matter of fact I picked again his because I liked it the most from those three submitted)...

In terms of calendar layout I remember last year it was 50:50. So some wanted A4 and some A3 design. I like more A4 design but in terms of effort A3 is better. Discussion about this can start in separate topic please. Overall inputs from me:

- A4 design means picture with small calendar grid in it. Where depends on picture (where it fits) and how good/not good looking it should be is the question. Can not say till I see 12 winners.
- A3 design means picture on one page and just grid on the second. No issues with anything. All picture layouts will work (just fit it nicely to A4 page and done)... I have not much time now so it can save me some effort like this = I support simple A3 design after all.

Oh okay, I was simply referencing your ideas posted on the first couple of pages of the submit your pictures thread, which is why I designed a shot with so much space available at the top of the image I actually prefer the A3 layout myself.

At the end of the day there is only one truly fair and unbiased way of voting and that is to make everybody publicly pick 12 numbers out of the 20 - private voting doesn't work as we found out last year, and even the pre-defined selection is (as you said) your preference but people are lazy and just like those 'Like for X Comment for Y' Facebook memes, everybody knows that the likes will always win. This would also discourage people who had no intent of buying the calendars from voting, as it is public and would require some thought and a couple of minutes of their time.

[snagmor]

Default selection is great, would change cover to original by tiga, much more professional imo. That thing looks like a calendar you'd find in the mall!

[Timmyface]

Default selection.
Tigawoods cover.
Replace UndaGrwnD with JoshuaM. Based on the fact in previous years, with your printer, dark images have not turned out the best, and his image will be a near full black splodgy page. Maybe a little adjustments to JoshuaM's and it will slot in perfect.

[rentaspace]

Default selection.
Tigawoods cover.
Replace UndaGrwnD with JoshuaM. Based on the fact in previous years, with your printer, dark images have not turned out the best, and his image will be a near full black splodgy page. Maybe a little adjustments to JoshuaM's and it will slot in perfect.

I would agree with this, as much as I want my own photo in there, if the printer can't get the darks out good, then I wouldn't vote for mine..

[Timmyface]

And if my image doesn't suit the new layout, feel free to change it to the white wheels. I'm sure no one would disapprove of either image. Whatever fits best.

But take a look at older calendars you done with dark images, and reconsider JoshuaM's photo. There's 2 dark ones in there atm.

[UndaGrwnD]

Default selection.
Tigawoods cover.
Replace UndaGrwnD with JoshuaM. Based on the fact in previous years, with your printer, dark images have not turned out the best, and his image will be a near full black splodgy page. Maybe a little adjustments to JoshuaM's and it will slot in perfect.

[rentaspace]

Default selection.
Tigawoods cover.
Replace UndaGrwnD with JoshuaM. Based on the fact in previous years, with your printer, dark images have not turned out the best, and his image will be a near full black splodgy page. Maybe a little adjustments to JoshuaM's and it will slot in perfect.

DW man, your shot is great, we are just worried with the printer from the previous year

[cheela]

I chose default selection with Tigawoods for the cover.

[drumbum]

I chose the default selection: Tigawoods as the cover

[PegGTS]

I vote for default selection but if the darks won't come out very well then maybe UndaGrwnD, rentaspace and maybe marcov might need different pictures? Just a thought

[rentaspace]

I vote for default selection but if the darks won't come out very well then maybe UndaGrwnD, rentaspace and maybe marcov might need different pictures? Just a thought

I'm not in the default selection...
So it wouldn't matter for me... I don't have time now anyway to go out and get more photos anyway...

[malpaso]

Thank you all for participation! Honestly I have expected more posts with own 12 selections. Was it just me who made that effort with selection of 12?

I vote for default selection but if the darks won't come out very well then maybe UndaGrwnD, rentaspace and maybe marcov might need different pictures? Just a thought

I will definitely not change anything from default selection now when voting has started. And that exactly why is here possibility to make own selection. If you do not like UndaGrwnD, rentaspace or marcov picture (any reason - and yes "too dark" is also reason) just replace them in your own selection with another that suits you better please.

In terms of printer. I plan to use the same printing company not just because I am lazy to search for another. Reason is because if we make order for 50 calendars (as was last year btw.) they create for such a big batch of printing "sample for approve" and send to me before all 50 are made. The reason is exactly to see how it looks in terms of cropping, colors and lightness. So I see no issue with "dark" pictures. What is mystery for me is the fact why debate about "too dark pictures" is started after collection of pictures is closed (!?) Why ANYONE have not mentioned this when pictures were submitted???? That means a months ago... not "10 minutes after midnight".

[Timmyface]

There's no real issue with discussing it now, as we do have over 12 images to compensate.
Alot of people have mixed up your poll selections too.

And I think how the people have posted (me included) was your exact 12 but I replaced that one photo. Just didn't type out all the names. I just know last years and the one before my personal images were very dark when hung on the wall. I corrected last years as much as I could, but have learnt from this.

So my entry is YOUR DEFAUT SELECTION. Replace UndaGrwnD with JoshuaM.

/rant

[malpaso]

There's no real issue with discussing it now, as we do have over 12 images to compensate.
Alot of people have mixed up your poll selections too.

And I think how the people have posted (me included) was your exact 12 but I replaced that one photo. Just didn't type out all the names. I just know last years and the one before my personal images were very dark when hung on the wall. I corrected last years as much as I could, but have learnt from this.

So my entry is YOUR DEFAUT SELECTION. Replace UndaGrwnD with JoshuaM.

/rant

mate... when talking about "expected more own selections" I was taking about 4 hits in "I will share with my own" and just two posts with clear description (from you and JoshuaM). Where is the rest? Or I did not understood well post from Chromed, Ehrgeiz and snagmor? They are not "default" because they comment the cover or are and just talking about it? Is that means "new cover" has also (now) 14 votes and Tigawoods one has just 4? But they are three... I miss just two "own selection" votes. So it is here again. This system do not work as expected and I really do not know how to write instructions better to make people do something that gives me clear voting results . This is the last year I do something like calendar...

[Timmyface]

I understand everything your saying, and it is a little confusing with the two options to choose. An it seems some people have chosen your default/whatever you choose, than suffered in here to change the cover.

I think a simple poll like COTM/last year, with all entries would have worked a little better. Sure not everyone would have voted for 12, but if every one at least voted for 2-3 cars, there would still be an outstanding 12 cars.

I say move on from this, but its settled that Tigawoods cover should remain.
I've agreed/helped you out in previous years, so I support whatever decision you choose to make.
Whatever is easier, so we all actually GET a calendar at all

[malpaso]

I think a simple poll like COTM/last year, with all entries would have worked a little better. Sure not everyone would have voted for 12, but if every one at least voted for 2-3 cars, there would still be an outstanding 12 cars.

Mate... COTM voting works just because request is "pick one" and you are looking for one winner. Now I want "pick 12" because am not afraid about "top end of the list" but about the bottom. That means when people make vote just to 2-3 cars there will be half cars with dozens of votes and half with one or two. And that is the point. Result of votes will be like: 35,30,25,24,12,5,6,4,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,1,1,1,1. Just because people selected "top" and had no care about the "bottom"?

That is why my aim was to make that effort at least my self. Pick 12. Share and:
a) let people just follow (because their preferred 2-3 cars are in my selection anyway and they do not care about the rest).
b) give chance to those who want and make the same effort to create own selection.
Everyone should be happy.

[UndaGrwnD]

just let people vote now, how it was intentded to be and see what happens..

[rentaspace]

Just a suggestion for future:
You could use a site such as Survey Monkey which is free and would mean people HAVE to pick 12 to get their vote counted...

[Tigawoods]

but I looove UndaGrwnD's photo!! Keep it! Keep it!

[Chromed]

I like it too!!

[PegGTS]

Alright well these are my 12 picks then. I tried not not to vote for mine but it just ended up that way lol

With Tigawoods' cover

Timmyface
Tigawoods
malpaso
Rusty
RoyO
drumbum
chromed
Ehrgeiz
UndaGrwnD
IfWeChoose
PegGTS
marcov

This post has been edited by PegGTS: Sep 4, 2013 - 11:41 AM

[UndaGrwnD]

hehe thanks guys

[malpaso]

Just a suggestion for future:
You could use a site such as Survey Monkey which is free and would mean people HAVE to pick 12 to get their vote counted...

As I already said. There will be "no future". This is the last time I am involved in making the calendar. Anyway. Thank you for making my world bigger.

[Timmyface]

I really do not know how to write instructions better to make people do something that gives me clear voting results . This is the last year I do something like calendar...

As you said here Malpaso, a better thought of Image selection would solve all of these problems. We should have stuck to the COTM winners get first pick, otherwise its the first 12 High Res to be submitted get in the calendar. If someone took too long to submit, thats their fault, not yours. When you receive 12 images, your good to go. If 20 werent selected in the first place, we wouldnt be here.

Me, nor Rentaspace, or anyone else is 'bagging you out' or 'having a go at you' about all of this, so theres no reason to get all worked up and say your not doing another calendar again, as all the ones you have done have worked out GREAT. We have discussed that your 2 options in this poll was a bit 'iffy' from the start, choosing from 'YOUR selection' or 'post our own' - But as i said, because there were 20 images, things like this were BOUND to happen. So next year, first 12 in, thats what it should be.

I think if we stuck to a definite selection process for the years to come, it would be 100% easier.

My last 0.2c in this situation, i'm all for the calendar with whatever you choose, my original comment was trying to state the BEST looking calendar possible.

[cheela]

^ I like that idea. 12 images, no choices. first come first serve. makes it easier for you and everyone else.

[storm26]

Last year was a poll and we choose the 12 out of few more pictures right? You can't make a special calendar for each other, but the voting would give a bit more accurate wishes and will show some democracy Otherwise, I would take the deafult one that will be made.

[malpaso]

...
Me, nor Rentaspace, or anyone else is 'bagging you out' or 'having a go at you' about all of this, so theres no reason to get all worked up and say your not doing another calendar again, as all the ones you have done have worked out GREAT. We have discussed that your 2 options in this poll was a bit 'iffy' from the start, choosing from 'YOUR selection' or 'post our own' - But as i said, because there were 20 images, things like this were BOUND to happen. So next year, first 12 in, thats what it should be...

mate, you get me bit wrong. Reason of my tiredness is not your (or any once) bagging. It is my epic fail (again) to get from people 12 votes from any number of submitted pictures. Last year when there was "open poll" I have found people voting just for one car instead 12. Reason was clear "friend of friend said give vote to this car" to get particular car to the calendar. Since I made screen-shots of results during days I got clear image who's car it was. I never get reason what kind of logic makes anyone to do that: "my car is there and rest I do not care". Are they happy to be 1/12 of a month on someones wall and the rest of the year looking on pictures they do not like? I really do not get this. Anyway. To not make the same mistake (to trust people are fair) I decided for another way. Give to everyone "default" view on calendar and let them make simple choice: "Is selection malpaso made good enough or not?" In fact it was nothing more than "this is how it will look when you do nothing". That showed as another mistake. Even simple request that had no reason to return false results do not work. Why? I can not write what I need in English clear enough? Never mind. Maybe this will work. Let me try to get current results:

14x for default = 14 clear votes (or not?)
5x for own selection

Timmyface - clear message = UndaGrwnD out, JoshuaM in the rest for default one vote
PegGTS - my hero = 12 names (in fact default with two changes, HistoriCo and cheela out, IfWeChoose and PegGTS in)

where is the remaining 3 "own selections"? OK... lets ignore it (I do not know where to put votes anyway). And here is result:

1) Timmyface = 16x
2) Tigawoods = 16x
3) Nial = 0x
4) marcov = 16x
5) JoshuaM = 1x
6) czwalga = 0x
7) malpaso = 16x
8) rentaspace = 0x
9) cheela = 15x
10) IfWeChoose = 1x
11) Rusty = 16x
12) RoyO = 16x
13) HistoriCo = 15x
14) drumbum = 16x
15) UndaGrwnD = 15x
16) BlackWidow = 0x
17) chromed = 16x
18) williamw1987 = 0x
19) Ehrgeiz = 16x
20) PegGTS = 1x

People shout loud enough for Tiga's cover so let's have that originally planned. I have not noticed the same for any other picture missing in that selection (except biased owners). So it is GREAT as is right?

- there are not two pictures with the same composition (like 3x white celi from the rear)
- there are original ideas you never seen on calendar before (UndaGrwnD's picture in the night for example. It is unique shot or Tigawoods through flowers as well)
- there are no pictures with people in it (never were so why starting with that?)
- there are pictures that took some effort to take (someone spend time preparing, making and finishing a picture) not "just" made random shot on the street. I do not say it is bad picture. I say there are bit better once and that is the point of selection (90% is great but it is less than 95%. I hope you get the point of this).

This post has been edited by malpaso: Sep 6, 2013 - 4:20 AM

[rentaspace]

Not that it is going to matter but I did state my selection, which was +1 to timmy.
So josh has X2 votes.


Anyway, the calendar is going to look good either way, so I'm now just waiting for the final layout

[JoshuaM]

You did almost everything right, and had good intentions, but poll voting will never work.

The only way to fairly vote is to lay out the thumbnails as you did, and make every voter pick 12 images themselves by listing all 12 in a public post (just like PegGTS did). A 'legal' vote has 12 names / numbers.... no more / no less. Any variations to this are classed as 'illegal' votes and are disregarded. Done. That also weeds out people that aren't even interested in the calendar.

simple choice: "Is selection malpaso made good enough or not?"

BINGO! This is what has annoyed me most about this whole process. The calendar this year is not the '6GC.Net' calendar... it is the 'Malpaso' calendar which we may all pass judgement on if we wish. If that is how it was marketed that would be fine too, but that didn't become really apparent to me until a week ago after I had poured much effort into the calendar.

This was particularly evident to me when I was made part of the calendar and then after disagreeing with you was promptly kicked out. I could accept if my images weren't as good as other members but that wasn't the issue - it was a comparison of my own two images. It obviously wasn't shown on here, but before I submitted my last image I asked about half a dozen people from both the car world and not which image I should enter, and whilst everybody thought they both looked nice, almost every one of them said the newer one. However, Malpaso obviously knew better than all of them.

Any denial of any of this can quickly be shut down with the first line of the pole too - since when in a fair vote does "I don't care" count as a vote for YOUR favourites? If people don't care then they shouldn't vote.... the entire system was rigged from the start.

Call me biased all you like - I am. But I am just p!ssed off that after all the hours I put into my images designed specifically for the calendar (hence the space at the top for when it was an A4 design) only to be completely shut out because of ONE PERSON's opinion. I would happily sit out if there was a fair vote and mine wasn't selected - but there was never any chance of that from the start with this system.

Also, your count so far is also wrong. And you shouldn't be changing the cover according to your own voting system (I prefer Tigawood's one btw), as it is 14 votes to keeping the same and 5 votes to changing..... so I guess that is just another admission that the system doesn't work.

EDIT: I just re-read your last message and perhaps I have been a little harsh - you appear to have seen the error in some of your ways. We still have plenty of time, so now you now just have to make the decision; do you want to make your calendar as is (The Malpaso calendar) and let people buy it if they like it, or do you want to close this thread and just open a new one using the system mentioned at the start with no polls (The 6GC.Net Calendar)? You have put in the effort thus far, so we can leave that choice to you. Even if we end up with the exact same preferences, everybody will know that it is fair and we can have a business model that will work seamlessly for years to come (and no more bickering, lol )

This post has been edited by JoshuaM: Sep 6, 2013 - 10:00 AM

[Tigawoods]

whoa. im outta this thread

[njccmd2002]

[UndaGrwnD]

whoa. im outta this thread

+1

[malpaso]

You know what dear JoshuaM? Use more than one brain cell before you share your personal opinion about others again... here are some hints.

- do you see I call it "6gc.net" calendar in this topic? So think about it...
- you took this conversation into personal level and that shows a lot about you. in fact you act like small kid. just because someone disagree with your opinion. this will happen again in your live. get prepared for it and grow up. also I have feeling you have issues to deal with consequences of your acts. not good...
- use your imagination and think why I bother with some calendar here. you think it is money? some kind of need I must have picture of my car on every wall around the world? Really think and maybe use search button (it always helps) here on this forum and find some my posts from last year. answers are there.

anyway. since you know better how to deal with everything and can not imagine to continue with the calendar I would like to ask moderators simply close this topic and let you handle calendar issue your self. all pictures I received I will upload to some data share during the weekend and message you the link. show to all please better way how to have all calendar things sorted.

thank you

------------------------------------------------------------------

To all who submitted pictures I would like to thank you for their time. Especially to Tigawoods, Timmyface and Rusty.

[Timmyface]

I say to both Malpaso and JoshuaM - Alot of misinterpretation has been read, different understandings of how things were to work, and how personal or impersonal this calendar discussion has become, that everyone needs to take all of this in, and let it all go, and go as it is.

I agree with many points in both parties here, i have talked to JoshuaM outside of this thread, and good/bad points have been made all round, but i think both of you DO want whats best for not only the calendar, but for EVERYONE purchasing it.

So i think i say it for everyone, JoshuaM included, that a 6GC Calendar by Malpaso - is better than No calendar at all.

Malpaso - Take the 12 images that you either First received, or the top 12 thats been voted for so far (which would nearly be the same anyway) .. and throw that into the publisher ASAP, and get it all happening, im sure EVERYONE would be more than happy with that.

Just make the FS Thread, with them 12 images, price, and start a tally of who wants to buy one, and is ready with money. Than you can order THAT amount. If people miss out, thats their fault. If they aren't happy with the calendar, they wont buy it, Their fault.

This post has been edited by Timmyface: Sep 7, 2013 - 7:53 AM

[JoshuaM]

You know what dear JoshuaM? Use more than one brain cell before you share your personal opinion about others again... here are some hints.

- do you see I call it "6gc.net" calendar in this topic? So think about it...
- you took this conversation into personal level and that shows a lot about you. in fact you act like small kid. just because someone disagree with your opinion. this will happen again in your live. get prepared for it and grow up. also I have feeling you have issues to deal with consequences of your acts. not good...
- use your imagination and think why I bother with some calendar here. you think it is money? some kind of need I must have picture of my car on every wall around the world? Really think and maybe use search button (it always helps) here on this forum and find some my posts from last year. answers are there.

anyway. since you know better how to deal with everything and can not imagine to continue with the calendar I would like to ask moderators simply close this topic and let you handle calendar issue your self. all pictures I received I will upload to some data share during the weekend and message you the link. show to all please better way how to have all calendar things sorted.

thank you

------------------------------------------------------------------

To all who submitted pictures I would like to thank you for their time. Especially to Tigawoods, Timmyface and Rusty.

I LOVE your car Malpaso, and your work on the forums, and have read your build thread cover to cover multiple times. It is probably in fact my favourite 6GC, period. I have no problem with you at all, and I know you put together the calendar each year as a service, not a business. I guess I was just confused (and disappointed) about how this process would operate.

I do not want to stop others from enjoying the fruits of your labour, and will happily bow out now.

My only point was that simple changes could be made in the future to make the process 'fairer' from a purely democratic perspective, but more importantly make the system much easier to moderate for yourself.

Anyway, I completely agree with Timmy, what we have is still a fantastic looking calendar... gogo FS thread

[Rusty]

closed by request.


pm to reopen.