Help!! Celica is runnig rich at idle, Celica is up and running today. Options

[doory100]

Celica is up and running today. It's running super rich especially at idle. Any idea what may be the problem? My afr guage is buried at 10 and its burning black soot out the tail pipe.. It drives pretty good but it's jumpy when I let off the accelerator. I have a apexi neo safc installed. any links on how to set this up?

This post has been edited by doory100: Aug 28, 2015 - 7:03 PM

[Box]

Coolant temp sensor and primary O2 sensor are responsible for managing the air/fuel ratio.

[doory100]

is the primary o2 sensor, the one with the two bolts and the one wire. that one is installed and plugged in. and the wide band is installed after this one. The other o2 sensor is not installed.
Also, Where is the coolant temp sensor located?

This post has been edited by doory100: Aug 28, 2015 - 7:21 PM

[Bitter]

Is the engine light on? What's the AFC set to? Speed density? Does it have any corrections entered?

[doory100]

yes the engine light is on. It was set to zero. but i turned the corrections off, It was still the same just idled abit lower with the corrections off. The gt celica is what sensor type. I think its a pressure sensor, is that correct?

[Bitter]

Yes, pressure sensor. What's the code set?

[doory100]

Code set?

[Bitter]

The engine light, what's the code?

[doory100]

Not sure I don't have a scanner on me. I'm guessing running rich?

[Bitter]

Don't guess, there could be a code set for the cause of it running rich. Rich is the symptom of something wrong, you need to find the cause of it.

[doory100]

I will look into that asap

[Box]

http://www.6gc.net/howto/determine_check_engine_light_codes

Count the flashes and get back to us so we can single it out.

[doory100]

Code: 25 and 31

[Box]

25 is air/fuel ratio lean and 31 is air flow meter signal/vacuum sensor signal. Given your readout and etc... your MAP sensor is frucking things up.

[doory100]

Ok I did the test where you clear the code and then I jumped te2 and e1 with a paper clip drove until the light came on and got codes 27 and 71. 71 I know because I capped off the egr because of the custom intake manifold.. I have to figure out the vacuum leaks and make sure they are all gone. It seems to run ok well I'm driving and I did get the afr at 14.7 with the apexi neo while on the highway. But it still runs rich at idle and when I decelerate.
Here is the link
http://www.troublecodes.net/toyota/toyota-...-corolla-93-95/

This post has been edited by doory100: Aug 29, 2015 - 8:31 AM

[Bitter]

Whats your fuel pressure?

[doory100]

I haven't checked the fuel pressure yet I have to do that on Monday after work unless there's a way I can do it without a fuel pressure testing system

[Bitter]

Not that I'm aware of. What's the MAP sensor showing for a reading? If you take the AFC out of the car does it run normally? Just jump the MAP sensor wires back together and it's back to stock, the AFC is only a sensor monitor then.

[doory100]

Wouldn't turning the corrections off on the safc neo be the same as juming the wire?

[Bitter]

It should, unless there's something wrong or some setting you missed or got messed up. Take things out of the equation, KISS: Keep It Simple Stupid!

[doory100]

The settings are right and I hooked it up myself. When I turn the corrections off the rpm go from 2000 to 1300 rpm. So it is doing something. I don't know what the fuel trim setting should be set at pre 1000 rpm. Their just stock injectors and I cleaned them before they went in.

This post has been edited by doory100: Aug 29, 2015 - 1:09 PM

[Bitter]

It SHOULD be doing nothing at idle, AFC's are made for ONLY open loop full throttle kind of operation, not to control fuel at idle and low throttle. The computer will adjust fuel trims accordingly and wipe out whatever the AFC is trying to do in closed loop. If your settings are affecting idle then something is set wrong, you need to get back to basics.

[doory100]

So their is two connectors on the Celica TB and the 1mz Camry TB only has the one conector. What's the white block under the Celica TB that The other connector plugs into?
On the other hand The coolant line on the back of the 1mz TB is kinked and this could be a reason that it's ideling roughly, plus their is most likely a vacuum leak somewhere.

[Bitter]

Post a photo of the part in question.

[doory100]

[Bitter]

That's the idle speed motor, it controls the idle speed by bypassing air past the throttle plate.

[doory100]

So it would be okay if it wasn't plugged in because the 1mz throttle body I have does not have a plug for the coolant sensor. I'm thinking of going and getting the TB with the idle speed motor on it. What do you think?

This post has been edited by doory100: Aug 29, 2015 - 3:55 PM

[Bitter]

Can you bolt on an original 5S throttle body and plug everything in and see how it runs? You need an idle speed motor, throttle position, and coolant temp sensor for the car to run and idle correctly.

[doory100]

No, not with out removing the new intake manifold and installing the old one. I saw one last time i was at the junk yard with the coolant motor on it. So I'm going tomorrow morning to get it and have another look at the vacuum lines on the 5s motor that is at the junk yard too.

[Bitter]

It sounds like the throttle body is the problem then if it doesn't have an idle speed motor on it.

[doory100]

It sounds like the throttle body is the problem then if it doesn't have an idle speed motor on it.

would that cause it to run rich? maybe?

[Bitter]

Maybe, what's the MAP sensor reading at idle and with key on engine off on the AFC?

[doory100]

drove the car back to the shop today. I needed my truck. So I will check that out on Monday after work.

[Smaay]

wait a minute. what engine are you using and what TB are you using?

[doory100]

5sfe with a custom intake manifold and a 1mz v6 Camry TB.
Also where is the pressure sensor located. Does it plug into the intake pipe?


This post has been edited by doory100: Aug 30, 2015 - 10:30 AM

[Bitter]

The MAP sensor is in the picture, top left on the fire wall with the blue label. It needs to be connected to MANIFOLD vacuum.

[doory100]

Here is the new TB with the idle speed motor on it.. What is the 3rd line in the middle for? (the one with tho hose still attached)
[URL=http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/Rory_McNabb/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-08/20150830_122553_zpsbr1rsluj.jpg.html]

This post has been edited by doory100: Aug 30, 2015 - 2:16 PM

[Bitter]

That's the idle speed control motor and valve, not any kind of coolant motor. The middle hose looks like an air inlet for the IAC valve, which needs to be filtered air. Originally it probably connected to the air box or the air intake tube, but you can put a tiny cone filter on it for now or just leave it exposed for testing purposes as long as you don't drive with it open ended.

[doory100]

I am going to install the new TB today. I'm thinking that because of the idle speed sensor not being pluged in, the engine thinks that it's running lean and adding fuel to complicate. That's why it's running rich and getting a lean code.. Just my guess..

[doory100]

So installed the new TB and its still running rich. the idle speed sensor seemed to knock it down to 900 rpm but unless I trim the fuel all the way down on the lo throttle setting on the safc it idles rough with up and down revving and the engine shakes at high rev. And the map sensor hose was not plugged in. I have to make a inlet for that next. I temperately plugged it in to that space ship dealy on top of the engine, but Im guessing that won't do it. Also maybe bypass the safc and see how it runs.

[Bitter]

Uh you need the MAP connected to manifold vaccum, it has no idea how much air is entering without it! That's your problem! You can put it on any port that's connected directly to the manifold or T it off a hose with manifold vacuum in the mean time.


I don't mean to sound like an asshole, but it sounds like you have barely any idea what you're doing here.

[doory100]

I have an idea. I just rebuilt a engine by myself and it started first try. I may not know what every thing is exactly but I'm learning. Thanks for your help. I took automotive in college for a year and got straight A's. I just desided to go a differe rought.

[doory100]

so after putting the map vacume line into the TB, It runs great afr is at 14.7 and drives nice. im having a issue at 4500 rpm though. It seams to not gain any speed at that rpm and the afr reads 10. When do you start to trim away fuel or should I be adding more as the rpm climb?



what should I be setting the Throttle points at, and what does this do exactly?

[Bitter]

I'm not familiar with the Neo, I had a SAFC2 that was a dud and had a dead output so I could never use it to control anything. If it's reading 10:1 at 4500 rpm that would be too rich, you wouldn't try to add fuel to that. If the port you used for the MAP sensor is too close to the throttle plate it could be getting a poor reading, it should be reading from the manifold.

[doory100]

I used a T fitting like you said at the end of the TB. But I am planning on doing it up right. I still need to put it up on a hoist and check all the connections again to make sure there are no vacuume leaks.

[Bitter]

Ok, is the MAP sensor reading steady or does it do something weird at 4500 rpm? As throttle angle increases MAP should decrease, at full throttle it should be only a slight vacuum, nearly the same as atmospheric pressure. At steady throttle it should be fairly steady. When you release throttle and engine brake it should have very high vacuum and have steady vacuum around 15-20 inches at idle.

[doory100]

Seems to be fine. Drives like it did before.

[Bitter]

You had the dead spot before too?

[doory100]

No I'm not sure if it's still there I think I need to f with the safc some more. And I need to make sure everything is secure it might just be a vacuume leak. Thanks for your help I'll keep updating

[doory100]

blew the rad!! I hope I didn't damage the engine. What a way to start the weekend.

[doory100]

Are there any other Toyota's that share the same radiator, It doesn't look like it.