MS3PRO EVO on 4th Gen 3sgte Options

[HardHead93]

I just got my MS3PRO EVO in for my conversion to standalone on my 4th gen 3sgte. I am planning on taking my time with this install to make sure all the wiring is correct and clean looking. To help with the install I grabbed a 5sfe ECU and mounting hardware out of a junkyard car to use as a template for mounting the Megasquirt into the car.









Got relays, distribution blocks, and different color wiring for a clean centralized install.




My goal is to wire the ECU up for as many features as possible and once I get good tune running, start enabling the features. I spent the last few days reading the instruction manual and it has me excited with how much it can do.

This post has been edited by HardHead93: Sep 8, 2017 - 8:15 PM

[lagos]

Can you post up a before and after of the ignition timing map?
Any reason why you had it tuned on a dyno jet versus something like a mustang?

[HardHead93]

Can you post up a before and after of the ignition timing map?
Any reason why you had it tuned on a dyno jet versus something like a mustang?

Lagos I will do even more than that. I was planning to do a comparison of different 3sgte tunes and hopefully spark a discussion. As to why I went with Dyno Jet, that is what the tuners are using around here. Both of the dyno numbers I posted are from 2 different dynos but both of them are Dyno Jets. I think one of the shops in El Paso, TX is switching to a different dyno so I may look into what they have once the install is done.

Through the course of my standalone ECU 5sfte and 3sgte adventures I have been lucky enough to get a hold of multiple tuning files for the 3sgte. After getting my Gen 4 3sgte tuned and seeing that the power numbers were different from another person's tuned Gen 4 3sgte, I wanted to know what was different. I will be comparing Ignition Timing tables and target AFRs. I will not be comparing fueling tables because depending on injectors and TunerStudio settings those tables can look vastly different. Let's take a look.

Here is the base tables that TunerStudio and the Megasquirt Ignition table generated for me:
Then Ignition Timing
Then AFR

Here is the final tables that my tuner built. This tune produced 252 hp and 251 lb-ft torque:
Now Ignition Timing
Now AFR

Now let's compare it to 2 other tune files. Here is one of the exact same engine but from a different tuner. This tune produced 290 hp and 274 lb-ft of torque.
pitcelica Ignition TIming
pitcelica AFR

What is different between these tunes? The base tune generated has the richest AFRs in boost (over 100 kPa). The timing is very conservative under 3000 rpms then it looks like the tool generates a very basic timing map above that. My final tune is a little bit more lean with AFRs and the timing is mapped out for how my motor performed on the dyno and on the street. Now comparing my final tune to the higher horsepower tune you see that his tuner went even leaner with AFRs and even more aggressive with the timing. While I am running 11.4 degrees at max boost, the other engine is running 13-16 degrees at max boost. Since he is running more timing than me his car will have more power when boosting when compared to mine. Also the higher horsepower 3sgte is using table switching to have a higher resolution timing table. Does the higher resolution make a difference? Not sure that depends on who you talk to.

You are probably seeing this and wondering, why did my tuner play it so save? I stayed and watched the tuner work the whole time during the tuning process and he was having problems with knock at peak boost so he had to add more fuel and take out timing to fix it. I think part of the problem was the software was reading different AFRs than actuals. I have since corrected that problem with a custom inc file. I bet if I get with the tuner again he may be able to put some timing back in and I might pick up some horsepower. The good thing about this situation is I know as of right now my tune is not on the edge of safe and a blown motor.

To continue this discussion, lets look at a tune for a Gen 2 3sgte.
Lagos Ignition Timing
Lagos AFR

Now the Gen 2 has a 8.5:1 compression compared to the Gen 4's 9.0:1. This means that the Gen 2 can run more timing on boost without seeing knock. The bad news is that the car will feel more sluggish out of boost. You can also see that based on the AFR table the Gen 2 has to run richer and has the riches AFR out of all the tunes. How does that compare to the baseman provided by DIYAUTOTUNE?
3sgte Basemap Ignition Timing
3sgte Basemap AFR

It looks like whoever tuned the Gen 2 3sgte took some safety precautions but also got a little aggressive in other areas. The timing was backed off a little bit down low but advanced more as boost comes on. It looks like the AFRs are richer than the basemap to compensate for that added timing. So again, it all depends on how the motor and the ECU were set up and performing during the tuning session.

What do I think? First of all, I am not a tuner or a professional engine builder but I do have an engineering background. I believe all these tune files each have their purpose and this further reinforces the need for getting your car professionally tuned. As you can see, 2 similar motors have 2 very different timing and fuel tables. What do you guys think?

This post has been edited by HardHead93: Dec 12, 2017 - 1:06 AM