True about GT86... Options

[malpaso]

At last I had chance to test GT86.... Car I hate . I hate it for 200HP and even more for 205 Nm of torque. Also I hate Toyota for their price policy. They sell it here in Europe for $39,000 (base price!!! should be $44,000 for top version) but with the same power as Scion FR-S that is for sale for $23,100 (base price) in the US.

Anyway back to the point. Back to my experience from the last weekend. Now you know I do not like that car so really wanted to see it fall in my eyes . Fortunately I had chance to:

- see drag race between GT86 and Celica GT-S (T23 Sport)
- drive GT86
- "drift" GT86 (drift means to loose grip when cornering for me . I'm not any drifter...)
- talk to other GT, ST Celica drivers and ask about opinion...

...to make as much as unbiased conclusion about GT86.

First what "numbers say". When taking curb weight, power (or torque) and loss between engine and the ground (that is important) for all models of Celica (T20, T23 - all European versions) and GT86, than just converting to percentage value (to easily compare it) you receive some interesting answers. Lets say GT86 is "standard" (100% value) than:

6gen
ST = power 58%, torque 76%
GT = power 80%, torque 85%
GT-Four = power 86%**, torque 103%*
7gen
GT = power 78%, torque 91%**
GT-S = power 94%*, torque 87%

*highest value
**second highest value

From you see above theory say GT-S has no chance to win drag race with GT86 (lower torque means lower ability to start fast enough and almost the same power gives zero chance to catch what GT-S loose with slower acceleration). And reality is exactly as numbers say. I have seen two drag races between GT-S and GT86. Both won by GT86.

Also numbers can help to guess what was experience of other drivers and why in fact just GT-S drivers accepted challenge to race GT86. ST owners were all impressed with GT86. To have suddenly for 40% more power and 25% more torque than they are used to have (especially on rear wheels) knocked them down all . Also GT drivers were not disappointed at all. You can feel those +20% from first moment. No question about this. Also this is reason no one of those wanted to drag race it (there was no point for this).

Numbers also say only at least competitors for GT86 were:

7gen. GT = just slightly lower torque so in case track is short enough and GT86 mess up take off 7gen GT can win. Unfortunately no one tried his luck.
7gen. GT-S = slightly less power in combination with long enough track ...and GT86's messed up take off also gave some chances to win. As I saw not happened. GT86 in both races lead from take off to finish.
6gen. GT-Four = unfortunately none was available around. Any stock GT-Four has higher torque so should lead from the start for 100%. On too long track may loose in the end (thanks to weight and too high loss between engine and wheels). But you never know till you see .

NOTE: Some people may say now: "you were there! You have GT-four so you could race GT86!" No, no... all wrong. I have SS-Four... so I could not . OK, no silly excuses now. Racing with GT86 was pointless with my car. It would be like grizzly bear fighting with raccoon bear. Just to compare above percentage values is my car against GT86: power 128%, torque 159%. That means 30% more power on wheels and for 60% better acceleration than GT86. It would be just about me showing off there...

To driving/"drifting" impressions. Since my feelings are "calibrated" to my car result was exactly what I expected. Not enough power, pitiful torque. Take off is effective (when your ass shakes with behind spinning rear wheels it is always effective ). When trying accelerate from 50mph to 70mph it took ages. It is - no kidding - horrible. Any diesel powered van can accelerate faster! But when cornering (and not controlled by electronic) you can feel the edge when car is sliding and when knot. The most fun is balancing on this edge just by gently playing with gas pedal. You do not need more. Just one leg and smile . Handling of this car is stunning. GT-Four just grips and holding the line. No fun. GT86 is different.

Now I need to slightly re-evaluate my opinion about GT86. I do not hate it as a car anymore (or lets say not that much as before). But but I hate twice more Toyota (as company) for:

a) not make it for 50% stronger/faster (with this price tag) -> make it 300HP/305Nm and I have no issue to pay 40k for it.
b) not selling it for half here (with this power) -> give it price tag 23k (as to Scion in US) and I will say not a single word about power.

End of story .

[95CelicaST]

base price over here is higher than $23,100... FYI.


$24,200 is base, but you have to pay $755 for delivery, processing, and handling.

$24,955.. or just round off that $45 for a tank of gas and say it costs $25,000. Still considerably cheaper here


and yes, the lack of power is not very awe inspiring. That is why you should keep the Celica, so when you want power you can drive it instead!

[malpaso]

base price over here is higher than $23,100... FYI.

$24,200 is base, but you have to pay $755 for delivery, processing, and handling.
$24,955.. or just round off that $45 for a tank of gas and say it costs $25,000. Still considerably cheaper here

and yes, the lack of power is not very awe inspiring. That is why you should keep the Celica, so when you want power you can drive it instead!

Thanks for correction. I just took first price I found on the web. Still 25k is GREAT price for this power range. But do not get me wrong. No one plan to sell Celica here . But what I can say for sure is:

If I lived in USA and drove any stock Celica I would buy Scion FR-S for sure.

Because agree with njccmd2002 to the letter...

....
i would have expected more, but for 25k//
...

Thanks to RWD it is really fun to drive it and for any ST/GT Celica owner is more power as well. Anyway in Europe there is (IMO) no sense buying it. For example. Do you believe even Mercedes A250 AMG sport is cheaper here than GT86? (UK price is about the same: A250AMG vs GT86). And of course that AMG has more power than GT86... A250 AMG has torque 350Nm. 350! That is for 50 Nm more than stock GT-four... Yes it is FWD so forget about fun but for $40K I expect more than "just fun when cornering".

Malpaso we are paying
starting from 35K for the GT spec here
and 40K for the GTS spec

Aus 86 pricing

on top of that the waiting list here is rediculous (18 months wait for the GTS)

You cant really compare pricing between countries, different taxes, laws, rego etc..
Also I think the US is a big market so there is more margin.
Yes, i wish we had pricing like the US too..
Drove the car and Love it.. will get one when the facelift come out

Wow... mate that is insane. That is even worse than in here. You know... If I wanted to buy GT86 I shout take one the same day I tested it. There were three GT86, two for test rides and one immediately for sale for potential buyer.

From price-list I see there is also weigh gain for that GTS (+70kg!!!). Thanks to this I can change numbers...

6gen
ST = power 62%, torque 80%
GT = power 85%, torque 91%
GT-Four = power 91%**, torque 109%*
7gen
GT = power 83%, torque 97%**
GT-S = power 100%*, torque 92%

*highest value
**second highest value

As you see weight is only advantage of this car any fancy equipment (big stereo for example) just devalue it. That is very interesting.

Just for your info I have added aslo link to CZ pricing... it is in CZ (sorry). In short you can find there: (exchange rate is about 20 Kč = 1 USD)

base price:
799 900 Kč for M/T
839 900 Kč for A/T

optional equipment:
30 000 Kč - premium audio
15 000 Kč - sat nav
15 000 Kč - metallic paint
22 500 Kč - pearl paint
8 000 Kč - silicon paint protection layer
14 900 Kč - warranty longer +3 years
5 000 Kč - Paket Race 1 (vinyl stripes bonnet+roof)
2 500 Kč - Paket Race 2 (vinyl stripes sides)
etc... (there are more like "parking assistant", "mud guards" etc... all for additional hundreds of dollars http://www.toyota.cz/cars/new_cars/gt86/index.tmex )

So you can see I'm to kind when saying the price is "just" 39-44k USD in CZ (because when exchange rate drops from 20CZK per 1USD to 19CZK top price with all additional fancy stuff bought can be 50k. No problem).

This post has been edited by malpaso: Sep 25, 2012 - 5:38 AM