The 3SGTE Swap, How-to Options

[Defgeph]

*THIS IS FOR INSTRUCTIONAL USE*

READ THIS BEFORE ASKING A QUESTION
90% of the time the answer is here.

Hey guys,
I figured I'd do a write up while I was doing my swap. Later on we can edit everything and have a nice FAQ & how-to for the 3sgte swap.

Ok, I dont know everything about cars. I took on this project to learn and further enjoy the car I love. There will be times where I dont know what a part is or how to explain it, but with everyone's help we'll get through it.

If you guys have anything to add, please feel free to reply. Please do not flame me or post negative remarks about the parts I install, or anything thats involved in this thread. Post your opinions not your attitudes.

First Step: The thought. Should I do it. Well its up to you, use this as a guide to help you along the way.
Its recommended that you have somewhere around 4000 dollars saved for the swap.

Before you ask: Engine or Clip. Get the clip, it will have all the parts you need for the swap. (for the most part). If you purchase only an engine you would have to hunt down so many hard to find parts it would be rediculous.

If you just bought engine, ecu, tranny, wiring harness.

You would be missing: 3rd ECU plug, AFM, ignitor, coil, injector resistor pack, fuel pump resistor, fuel pump relay, turbo pressure sensor, air intake piping, and probably some other stuff.

If you got a clip, you would be missing nothing. Plus, you could sell off a LOT of stuff, and pay for a good portion of your swap.

A swap can take a weekend or many months. It all depends on what you are doing.

It is probably a good idea to replace some old parts while you are at it! All gaskets, water pump, oil pump, belts, hose from hell, clutch, head gasket, distributor cap and rotor, plugs, plug wires, fuel filter, air filter, etc....depends on what you want out of the car. If you want to modify it, add some more.

Second Step : What model do you have ST(like me) or a GT.
IF you have a GT its a little easier for you guys. The 5sfe Tranny bolts right up to the 3sgte engine. Most people will bash the 5s tranny saying it wont hold the power. We have a few guys running the 5s tranny with no problems.
Other options: E-153 MR2 turbo tranny with LSD
1mzfe tranny found on Solaras, Camrys, and ES300s
3sge tranny found on a number of Toyotas

NOTE: The MR2 turbo tranny, and 1MZFE need the ST205 rear mount and bracket. Do not drive around with three mounts. DO NOT have one custom made for you, ORDER the ST205 rear transmission bracket

GT guys unless you dont want to use the 5sfe tranny, move on you dont need this section.

ST guys. You need a new tranny. You most likely know that you need new mounts. I have purchased all four GT mounts. Get them all you need everything. Its better to be safe than sorry.
You cannot use the Alltrac tranny. You cannot use your ST tranny. You would need a GT tranny or one of the trannys listed above.

ST mounts


GT mounts




See the mounts are totally different.



You also need to get a tranny, look above for recomendations. I'm using a JDM 3SGE Tranny. I'll have pics and more detail later on.
you need axles that match the tranny.
Shifter cables yep you need them.
Here is how they break down:
E-153 mr2 turbo tranny = ST205 cables only
GT tranny = GT shifter cables
1mzfe (also known as the E153) Solara, Camry Tranny = ST205 Cables only
3SGE Tranny = GT Cables
[/b]
I have some pictures of cables and the differences

GT & GT4 side by side

GT left, GT4 right

GT top, GT4 bottom

See totally different

Ok Cables, mounts, axles I think we can join the GT guys again.

GT & ST: Clutch. Depending on which tranny you use it will effect which clutch parts you buy.

Lagos wrote:
Clutch:
if using the gt tranny with the 3sgte motor, you will need:
5sfe disk (or a custom made 3sgte disk, with the splines for the 5sfe tranny)
5sfe throwout bearing
5sfe alignment tool
3sgte pressure plate
3sgte flywheel (or just get your stock one resurfaced)

if you are going to use an mr2 turbo tranny, then all you need to do is buy a clutch kit for a 90-93 turbo mr2.

be carefull when buying clutch disks for the 5sfe tranny. a stage 1 disk for the 5sfe is not the same thing as a stage 1 disk for the 3sgte. so if you get something like a stock oem clutch or a ACT street disk, it probably will not hold the power you need to put down.
if you call up a company like Spec or Clutchmasters and tell them about your project, they can make you a custom disk that can hold the power you will make and have the correct spline count that you need.

You all will need a new fuel pump. I am using a walbro supra turbo pump. Most people will say that it whines when operating. People have even dubbed it "WhineBro". Another option is to purchase a OEM Supra turbo pump from toyota. It is silent, and still delivers the fuel the 3sgte needs.

I'm not going to cover after market intercoolers. You can do the swap with the stock set up. The stock Air to Air cooler is not recommened, most people prefer to get an aftermarket. The stock intercooler sits on top of the 3sgte, with leads to heat soak at an idle. Most people Use an front mount intercooler. You can search for it in the forums.
My 3SGTE is the RC version with a water cooled top mount intercooler. I have no need to get a FMIC (front mount intercooler)

[Defgeph]

1. I would like to ask if i can use the 5SFE tranny without having to get a 3SGTE disk with 5SFE splines?

2. Also if i get a 3SGE tranny i would need the 3SGE axels with 5SFE(GT) cables?

3. Did you try to fabricate the 3SGTE wiring harness yourself before sending to DGPerformance?

4.How much was the cost for the harness to be completed?

5. Did you have to remove your 5SFE harness to send? or did you send the one that came with your clip (If applicable)?

1. Could you do it ? sure. I WILL NOT recommend doing it that way. The right way is get a 3sgte disk and matching the splines with a 5sfe tranny.

2. If you have a gt already I wouldnt bother getting a tranny. But if you do buy one, yes is my answer to number 2. I have not tryed driving my car with GT axles. I know they fit, but I dont know if they would work.

3. No, sent everything to him. He's awesome at wiring !

4. I cant remember, sorry.

5. You have to send him both harnesses, ST or GT. And the harness from your clip. You will also need to send him the fuel pump relay, located in the engine bay from the clip. This relay would be in a black box bolted to the frame next to the AC compressor.

GL
DEF

[CelicaGT04]

Awesome, thanks for the quick reply! I will try to get in touch with DG soon so i can talk to him about cost and time. Thanks!

[the4banger]

this is a great thread how can you put the all track tranny in the st ? im totaly lost i thought that demands power from all wheels?

[Kadett]

Unless you convert it to FWD. Can be done but you also need parts from another tranny.

[funnys_tears]

i NEED to know 2nd genration of 3sge tranny, i did a swap but i was using the all track stage 3 clutch.. when i match the tranny pine core of 3sge and 3sgte tranny, they both have differen pine core for the clutch, 3sge pine core is small then 3sgte..
but i like to know where i can find the right clutch to fit my 3sge tranny... cuz the flywheel is little small then the 3sgte tranny..

HOW CAN I FIND A CLUTCH THAT 2ND GENRATION OF 3SGTE TRANNY..
CAN YOU PLZ HELP ME PLZ..??
THANK FOR UR TIME!!

[hashmaster52]

so the 3sge tranny bolts right up just like the 5sfe tranny? theyre so hard to come across tho, unless im searchin the wrong sites...i cant seem to find one. whats the name of the 3sge tranny? i know the gt is like an s54, but whats the 3sge? iono what to type in when i search

[cjh4l22]

awesome dude awesome thread!! really glad you posted this because i was looking to do this in a few months (come summer..) Please ask if Christian will move this to the How-To-Articles!

[quicknstyle]

its in the stickies homie

[Defgeph]

so the 3sge tranny bolts right up just like the 5sfe tranny? theyre so hard to come across tho, unless im searchin the wrong sites...i cant seem to find one. whats the name of the 3sge tranny? i know the gt is like an s54, but whats the 3sge? iono what to type in when i search

Might want to try searching JDM S54, or 3sge transmission.

[hashmaster52]

so the 3sge tranny bolts right up just like the 5sfe tranny? theyre so hard to come across tho, unless im searchin the wrong sites...i cant seem to find one. whats the name of the 3sge tranny? i know the gt is like an s54, but whats the 3sge? iono what to type in when i search

Might want to try searching JDM S54, or 3sge transmission.

ooooh...so i guess the 3sge tranny is just a jdm version of the gt or somethin...thx

[hashmaster52]

so the 3sge tranny bolts right up just like the 5sfe tranny? theyre so hard to come across tho, unless im searchin the wrong sites...i cant seem to find one. whats the name of the 3sge tranny? i know the gt is like an s54, but whats the 3sge? iono what to type in when i search

Might want to try searching JDM S54, or 3sge transmission.

well i searched a bunch of places n no luck.....anybody have any links to where i can find a tranny for the 3s swap (preferably a 3sge tranny, but e153 will do as well)? thx

[quicknstyle]

as far as most people can tell the 3sge and gt tranny are exactly the same, just check out your local yards to find a gt tranny

[phattyduck]

as far as most people can tell the 3sge and gt tranny are exactly the same, just check out your local yards to find a gt tranny

They probably have different gearing/final drive... but the basic tranny is still the same.

-Charlie

[celicaST]

as far as most people can tell the 3sge and gt tranny are exactly the same, just check out your local yards to find a gt tranny

They probably have different gearing/final drive... but the basic tranny is still the same.

-Charlie

correct, same tranny, just different final drives

S54: 3.285, 1.960, 1.322, 1.028, 0.820 / FD: 3.944, 4.176
-3.944 diff found in jdm/uk 2nd and 3rd gen 3sge
-4.176 diff found in mk2 mr2 NA and 6gc GT

[hashmaster52]

as far as most people can tell the 3sge and gt tranny are exactly the same, just check out your local yards to find a gt tranny

They probably have different gearing/final drive... but the basic tranny is still the same.

-Charlie

correct, same tranny, just different final drives

S54: 3.285, 1.960, 1.322, 1.028, 0.820 / FD: 3.944, 4.176
-3.944 diff found in jdm/uk 2nd and 3rd gen 3sge
-4.176 diff found in mk2 mr2 NA and 6gc GT

sry, but what exactly does that mean?

[97rocket]

so i need a little of help selling my 97 st but im putting a new motor in for him and i was looking at getting a 3sge clip from a mr2 and was wondering if i can do this or will i need a clip from another celica because of the mounting. im getting it from a mr2 beacuse that will be my next car so i can part the rest of it out and turbo it.

[95CelicaST]

You would need to rewire a harness, fab some GT engine mounts, new trans. mounts. etc. If you want to put a newer engine into your ST I would suggest you find an "A" series engine, not an "S" series. Something like a 4AGE from a MKI MR2 or an AE92 Corolla GT-S. Also a Silvertop 4AGE from overseas would be good. If you are lucky you might be able to find a 4A-GZE from a MKI MR2, I believe starting in 1988.

[97rocket]

so its pretty useless to try and put a 3sge in it?

[95CelicaST]

its not "useless", it just isn't cost effective if you are looking to sell it. You won't get nearly as much $ back as you put into it.

[Bradley]

amazing post... i think because of this im going to go ahead and try this..... 2 questions how does the car feel, easy to drive or does torque steer make it difficult and where do you think i could get a good deal on a good clip