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> Enders swap, Update 7/25/16
post Apr 26, 2016 - 12:29 AM
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bloodMoney



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Jordan nailed it. The lancer was a fluke. Maybe I should buy a supra or mr2....


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post Apr 26, 2016 - 6:28 AM
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navseal345



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QUOTE (bloodMoney @ Apr 26, 2016 - 12:29 AM) *
Jordan nailed it. The lancer was a fluke. Maybe I should buy a supra or mr2....


Did you not like the lancer?


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post Apr 26, 2016 - 6:54 AM
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4-eyed-freek



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QUOTE (enderswift @ Apr 25, 2016 - 11:02 AM) *
there's already a big improvement. Toyota took linear power build up a little too seriously. I prefer the sudden rush of torque as the turbo spools, it's just more fun. The tricky part with tuning is the fact that my cutout causes the controller to overshoot it's target. I'm gonna have to setup a separate boost profile for when it's open.


I experienced similar problems with mine. I had the Gain set too high causing the spool to come on so fast and so strong that I would hit my set boost level right away and then it would fall off 3-4 psi. I tried to adjust the sensitivity (holds the boost) but the gain was so high that even at 100% duty on the sensitivity the boost would still fall. For some reason I could never really find that perfect (in my eyes) medium where boost came on that fast and would hold. Right now my current setup is fantastic compared to stock or a manual boost controller but there is still room for tuning. I can take a look at the meet and see what yours is like, I have 6 preset boost maps and have changed all of them at least twice lol


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post Apr 27, 2016 - 3:18 PM
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bloodMoney



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QUOTE (navseal345 @ Apr 26, 2016 - 6:28 AM) *
QUOTE (bloodMoney @ Apr 26, 2016 - 12:29 AM) *
Jordan nailed it. The lancer was a fluke. Maybe I should buy a supra or mr2....


Did you not like the lancer?


After spending 71k miles in that seat, my back was starting to give me issues. I couldn't be in the car for any more than an hour before I would start hurting a lot. The LS fixes that.


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post Apr 28, 2016 - 9:11 PM
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enderswift



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Turbocharge the LS and have a comfy sleeper


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post Apr 29, 2016 - 10:24 AM
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bloodMoney



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Hahahaha! I was acutally looking at UZ supercharger kits yesterday....

I'm so stupid. I need to get Lily up and running before I do anything else.

This post has been edited by bloodMoney: Apr 29, 2016 - 10:24 AM


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post Jul 1, 2016 - 7:04 PM
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enderswift



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Went to the dyno smile.gif



298hp/289ft-lbs at 19.5 psi sooooooooo close to 300 WHP! ARGH!




Heat soak made it hard for the turbo to push 20, which is annoying because I can hit 20+ in the mornings no problem, sometimes accidentally! I'm going to have to do a little work to help the charge cooler out. I'm thinking a little extra lagging, constant running mod, and an electric fan on the heat exchanger will help.

I could have turned up the EBC duty cycle and forced the turbo to make more boost... but the charge would probably have been incredibly hot if I did... And we all know that's dangerous territory

I'll get the heat under control and the car will respond with more boost naturally; no point risking a ring land. What's interesting is that the AFR's are pegged at 10 despite the higher boost O.o I don't think that's entirely due to the water/meth injection... Toyota really tuned these things rich O.O

This post has been edited by enderswift: Jul 1, 2016 - 7:27 PM


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post Jul 1, 2016 - 7:44 PM
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navseal345



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OMG Becky!

This post has been edited by navseal345: Jul 1, 2016 - 7:44 PM


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post Jul 2, 2016 - 9:24 AM
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Bitter

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meth spray the intercooler too, the phase change cooling from the water/meth evaporating will take away some heat too. not sure how much of a difference it'll make but it makes enough of a different that road and rally race teams have been doing it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0MY0diHo4U
Ok, seems legit even if they only had a single nozzle from a $15 DIY system. A better set of nozzles or a spray wand with better atomization would make a bigger difference in temps, and adding meth to the water would further increase it's effectiveness. I bet you could drop IAT's enough to get 300 safely with that. You've already got the tank, just need to add another pump, could get fancy and make the intercooler spray automatic too with some simple controllers.


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post Jul 2, 2016 - 9:41 AM
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4-eyed-freek



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I didn't see any difference with a heat exchanger sprayer on the dyno. My first run was the best, if it were air to air front mount I could see this being beneficial.


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It takes 8,460 bolts to assemble an automobile, and one nut to scatter it all over the road.

Celica: The name is derived from the Spanish word for "heavenly" or "celestial".
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post Jul 2, 2016 - 10:52 AM
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Bitter

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True, water to air will see less benefits, the only way to get water to air to exchange a large amount more heat is to increase core sizes and pump flow volumes. It works best for air to air because it takes less energy to change the temp of air than it does water, which is why WtA runs cooler initially but then heat soaks and stays warm. Same reason I have jugs of water in my freezer and fridge, thermal mass helps to regulate the temperature which is beneficial but in this situation it's not. All you can do to increase the capacity of the system is to run straight water as glycol has a lower heat capacity than water, beyond that bigger cores and stronger pumps or AtA intercooling is where it goes.


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post Jul 2, 2016 - 1:22 PM
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Box



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I think every turbo car runs pig rich from the factory, my brother's Genesis Coupe 2.0T can be spotless but after a couple hundred miles the exhaust tips are dirty and the back bumper has carbon deposits. It's not burning any oil and it still has the cat too. From a manufacturer's perspective I guess it's better to err on the side of overly rich than overly lean to minimize chances of warranty work needing to be done.

Anyhow, nice numbers. Close enough to 300 for government work. tongue.gif


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post Jul 2, 2016 - 1:43 PM
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enderswift



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QUOTE (Bitter @ Jul 2, 2016 - 9:24 AM) *
meth spray the intercooler too, the phase change cooling from the water/meth evaporating will take away some heat too. not sure how much of a difference it'll make but it makes enough of a different that road and rally race teams have been doing it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0MY0diHo4U
Ok, seems legit even if they only had a single nozzle from a $15 DIY system. A better set of nozzles or a spray wand with better atomization would make a bigger difference in temps, and adding meth to the water would further increase it's effectiveness. I bet you could drop IAT's enough to get 300 safely with that. You've already got the tank, just need to add another pump, could get fancy and make the intercooler spray automatic too with some simple controllers.


I love those guys, their videos are always fun to watch. As far as applying a spray bar goes, I'm not sure how I feel about it. The WRC models came with nozzles mounted into the crash bar, but it would take a LOT of volume to make a noticeable difference. My WI setup blast through a ton of wahser fluid as is. If I do it, It'll be after I've exhausted every other mod


QUOTE (Box @ Jul 2, 2016 - 1:22 PM) *
I think every turbo car runs pig rich from the factory, my brother's Genesis Coupe 2.0T can be spotless but after a couple hundred miles the exhaust tips are dirty and the back bumper has carbon deposits. It's not burning any oil and it still has the cat too. From a manufacturer's perspective I guess it's better to err on the side of overly rich than overly lean to minimize chances of warranty work needing to be done.

Anyhow, nice numbers. Close enough to 300 for government work. tongue.gif


maddeningly close! But I'm really splitting hairs, it's within the realm of how the car was strapped down, how much pressure is in the tires, and how long we cool down between runs. Still would be nice to see a 3 in number though!

This post has been edited by enderswift: Jul 2, 2016 - 1:51 PM


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post Jul 4, 2016 - 12:13 AM
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BonzaiCelica



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Awesome to see tq and hp so close to each other.. been so long since I last felt a turbo celica I forget the feeling.. your car seems to curtail to both power and handling.

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Jul 6, 2016 - 8:45 AM


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post Jul 25, 2016 - 11:07 PM
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enderswift



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What's fuel cut?

MY 20 PSI 3RD GEN VIDEO

A distant memory that's what

Turns out there's a lot of misinformation on what triggers the 3rd gen ecu.... Most people think there's just a hard 17.999 psi threshold that kills the party the instant the turbo tries to boost higher, but that's not true.

Before I go on:


Refer to the following at your own risk. Raising boost is a good way to damage your engine. I cannot be responsible for any damage YOU inflict on your ride using the information below.

Seriously, cracked ringlands, melted pistons, blown head gaskets, burned valves, shattered ceramic turbines, death, general unhappiness etc, can all occur when you defeat fuel cut! I'm just a dude sharing my experience modifying my car, attempt at your own risk!!

Also, In my opinion water injection is mandatory. The cooling effects of water in the combustion chamber acts as a knock suppressor that is critical when raising boost. In fact, go read a book on what goes on in a combustion chamber to really appreciate how awesome Water injection is. Otherwise, enjoy your cracked ring lands

Water Injection Explanation Video


Anyway

The ecu is not just looking for a single voltage from the map sensor. Fuel cut is triggered by multiple variables including at least throttle position, engine rpm, and rate of boost build, probably more

I realized this when my boost controller would hit and hold 19 psi at part throttle (think 3/4). Or when I could hit and hold 19 psi at WOT below 5500 rpm w/o issue. How could this be possible if 17.99 psi was a hard limit??

Here's an example of what I think the effect of rpm is on the map sensor voltage required to trigger fuel cut:



The higher the rpm, the lower the boost pressure required to trip cut. Thus the key to preventing fuel cut from ever triggering, is to cap the map sensor just below the lowest threshold voltage during the worst case mix of engine rpm and throttle position. The best way to do this is with a map clamp.

Unfortunately there's a lot of hate for map clamps around here; the biggest complaint I've heard is that fuel cut would still seem to engage at random times... Well, that's just those other two variables kicking in to lower the threshold voltage. Again, the ecu is looking for a combination of parameters to trigger cut, you need to find the worst case scenario and adjust your clamp to cap juuust below it.

Here's what I use:



Supra-Store Boost-Cut defender Link


This thing is basically a reverse engineered Greddy BCC down to the the wire color (you can even use the Greddy install manual if you want). Its obviously set up for a supra, but all you have to do is take it apart and rotate the adjustment screw counter clockwise to lower the cap voltage. It took me half an hour of adjusting the screw counter clockwise 1/4 turn at a time until I stopped hitting fuel cut under any circumstance. Easy.

I wired mine in right at the ECU (will update with wiring specifics later, too tired at the moment)

But what about air fuel ratios!!?

Watch the video, these cars run so rich that my afr needle pegs at 10 even at 20 psi... did I mention water methanol injection?

You may be wondering why the AFR hovers around 12 for a few moments in some of the pulls. It's because I was flooring it from around 2500 rpm; the st205 ECU leans out the mixture below 4000 rpm to help spool the turbo faster. After 4k the AFR collapses to 10 and stays there all the way to redline. Leaning out the mixture to help reduce lag is a pretty common strategy among OEMs.

For me there have been zero issues. once I set voltage I never hit cut again. ever.

I've also never had issues with knock, and I've done multiple hard track days in 90 degree heat. During some events the car got so hot that I could literally hear the coolant boiling in the turbo between sessions, even after 5 min of idling. Still no knock, or pulled timing, or anything.

This post has been edited by enderswift: Sep 21, 2016 - 12:06 PM


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post Aug 19, 2016 - 10:33 AM
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bloodMoney



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YUSS!!!


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post Aug 19, 2016 - 10:52 AM
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lagos



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Props for a nice swap and clean install.

If you want some further understanding into how the factory ecu works, I recommend checking out this thread.
http://www.mr2oc.com/12-after-market-engin...load-cells.html

As for knock, keep in mind that the factory ecu doesn't catch every knock event and there is still a chance of engine damage. The only way to be sure is to use audio detection systems to listen for a knock even.


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post Aug 19, 2016 - 8:52 PM
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enderswift



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wow, I can't believe someone finally cracked the 3rd Gen ecu


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post Sep 21, 2016 - 11:15 AM
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Ted95



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It's been a long time since I've revisited this thread, excellent progress and write up man! Build looks great!


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post Jun 1, 2017 - 8:50 PM
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enderswift



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