7A-FTE made in Germany Options

[Hafkai]

Hi, after over a year of gathering parts my Celica finally is in the garage and gets her custom header, exhaust and some other stuff.
Yesterday we fitted the big Evo9 intercooler, i had to get the ST205 crash bar because the stock one is to tight, intercooler piping was done too and i'm very happy with it. I will use the stock ST205 air filter box, since there is not much space between the filter box and the engine, the IC piping is a little bit tricky but it looks like we found a good route.









The header will be done in the next days.



Short list of parts i'm using:
- Garrett T25 Turbo from a CA18DET
- Mitsubishi EVO 9 Intercooler
- E-manage Ultimate
- Innovate LC-1 Wideband
- ST202 3S-GE Injectors (372ccm)
- ST205 Fuel Pump
- Bosch Blow-Off from a Audi S3
- Custom Header and 3" Exhaust
- dozens of other small parts

[Pollux]

Nicht schlecht, Herr Specht
(Not bad Mr. Woodpecker )

Has it been on the dyno yet?
What's the power output?
Why didn't you just do a 3s-ge or 3s-gte swap?

Du bist der mit den Ultraleggeras, der öfter mal auf dem Eurospeedway unterwegs ist, stimmts?
(Not relevant to US-habitants... i apologize for writing german)

[hurley97]

Holy hell!!! Is that massive intercooler really necessary on a 7A?? How much boost are you planning to run?

[malpaso]

amazing job...

[RickJamesBish]

Sieht gut aus. Wie viel kW sind in planung?

[Hafkai]

Why didn't you just do a 3s-ge or 3s-gte swap?

Du bist der mit den Ultraleggeras, der öfter mal auf dem Eurospeedway unterwegs ist, stimmts?
(Not relevant to US-habitants... i apologize for writing german)

Joa der bin ich
I'm not a big fan of the 3S-GE(except BEAMS ) and i dont want to swap the whole engine. The 3S-GTE is without a doubt the better base for power but i'm not looking for that much and 7A-FTEs are very rare in germany..

Holy hell!!! Is that massive intercooler really necessary on a 7A?? How much boost are you planning to run?

Absolutely not , for some fun on the streets a much smaller intercooler would be enough, but i will use the car for trackdays and ~15min full throttle ask for something that is able to take the heat and release it fast enough, i think the Evo intercooler is a good choice for this job.
I don't plan to run much boost, 8 or max. 10psi on the track, the 7A may take more in daily driving with only short boost attacks.. but a racetrack is something different.

[hurley97]

I have a small water to air that sits in the bay and it is awesome. But I also daily drive the car, I don't race it on the track. Although I'd have to say it would probably do better in longer and harder running conditions like highway or track use rather than around town or at slower speeds, reason being the increased amount/cooler air getting to the heat exchanger mounted in front. Water has a better cooling ability than air which is subject to the outside temperature. The w2a itself under the hood is ice cold after a highway run in the summer.

This post has been edited by hurley97: Dec 28, 2008 - 12:10 PM

[lagos]

most efficient mounting of an intercooler to date. nice job.

[njccmd2002]

that would block the air to the radiator, yes?

[enderswift]

x2, wont the trackday benefits of the intercooler be offset by the fact that now your engine will be running alot warmer? i imagine the cooler air charge wont matter thing when the cylinders are surrounded by a piping hot water jacket 0.o

[Batman722]

that would block the air to the radiator, yes?

not as much as your AC condenser does.

x2, wont the trackday benefits of the intercooler be offset by the fact that now your engine will be running alot warmer? i imagine the cooler air charge wont matter thing when the cylinders are surrounded by a piping hot water jacket 0.o

um, no.
First, your AC condesor blocks air flow to the radiator more than anything. It's bolted directly in front of your radiator and are your cylinders surrounded by a piping hot water jacket ? nope.
Second, both the condensor and that IC have fins (just like a radiator) and air passes through them, hence cooling the coolant or air you have running through it. With his IC there is plenty of room for air to get through and around it to cool everything just fine.

[CelicaST_CALI]

Plus he has fans...



great 7afte build so far!!!Isnt 3" exhaust a lil big for a 7afte?

This post has been edited by CelicaST_CALI: Dec 29, 2008 - 12:23 AM

[enderswift]

haha you're right, completely forgot about the condenser
dont the cooling passages run between the cylinders? maybe waterjacket isnt the right term... ill check out what my haynes manual has to say


either way back on topic, nice setup

This post has been edited by enderswift: Dec 29, 2008 - 1:17 AM

[Hafkai]

Header is completed and the rest of the exhaust will be done this week.

[enderswift]

thats some CLEAN exhaust work there

[CelicaST_CALI]

awwwww a cat wheres the fun in that?

[SpoonR530]

Gotta love that German Engineering

[Batman722]

do you plan on not using the fans anymore ? it looks like it's going to be a tight fit....
I would of suggested putting them or at least one on the opposite side of the radiator but with that IC and the big horn there, might not be much room there either.

also, get a new radiator. Yours looks about 14 years old and with the excessive heat from that set-up you'll kill that one sooer than you think.

[Hafkai]

I'll try to fit the stock fan on the other side of the radiator, if that doesn't work i'll get one or two Spal fans. They're much thinner, should fit without any problems.
The hot side of the turbo will get a heat shield, the header maybe too but i'm not shure about that.

[malpaso]

I'll try to fit the stock fan on the other side of the radiator, if that doesn't work i'll get one or two Spal fans. They're much thinner, should fit without any problems.
The hot side of the turbo will get a heat shield, the header maybe too but i'm not shure about that.

It will work for sure

[Hafkai]

Got new pics, there are still some things to do but the engine should run this weekend.

[Sebby]

Grat job mate,keep up the good work!!

[playr158]

Nice work, looks like your project is coming along very clean.

[Hafkai]

More pics

[normality78]

i like the way how you fabricate the downpipe housing. Looks great...

[Hafkai]

IT'S ALIVE!!

Today we finaly got everything done what's needed to let the engine run. After 10 minutes wondering why my E-manage and the starter don't work, my friend simply asked me "immobilizer??"... unbelievable how fast you can forget something like that
The engine runs a bit rich at idle and closed loop didn't worked, maybe a problem with the stock lambda probe. Tomorrow we put the car on the dyno and i try to set up the E-manage so that the car will run not too bad with boost, fine tuning will follow the next weeks.

Short video

and some pics






This post has been edited by Hafkai: Jan 19, 2009 - 7:16 PM

[Hafkai]

Dyno video
First run with some engine knock because of too advanced ignition timing making the engine stutter above 5000rpm, i retarded the timing about 2-3° in the next runs.

[normality78]

nice figure...!! cant wait to see full dyno plot.

[normality78]

im watching the video but i also notice some knocking sound behind. Is that the engine knock sound you're refering to? Coz i can hear it even on low rpm and gradually increasing as ur rev up

[Hafkai]

The loud knocking sounds are from the dyno. The actual engine knocking isn't audible but you can hear that the engine doesn't rev freely in high rpm. Too bad i don't have a video from the other runs.

[normality78]

alright. that's scared me of the loudness. If were at that level, very soon will...... hehehe

[Hafkai]

I finally got the car back and it runs great, the exhaust is relatively quiet but sounds wonderful. The E-manage works great but i have to do some settings till ignition and injection are perfect.. still get some engine knock but not as bad as with the old spark plugs. I just did a short test drive on the Autobahn i never was that fast on >110mph and the car still pulls very hard, but my clutch decided to die and started to slip real bad.... i'll order a Exedy Stage 2..
short video of 2. - 3. gear, the clutch gripped but the wheels are spinning in 2. gear Link

[normality78]

keep it coming.....

[eggman40]

man that is a GREAT install, i love how clean you installed everything. Especially with the small space your working with.

I would however try and maybe wrap the manifold and the first 2ft of the charge pipe with some heat wrap. that should help a little in keeping the heat from spreading in the engine bay, and more imporatantly the radiator. Ive never seen an exhaust pipe so close to the radiator, Id be a bit a concerned about the radiator breaking at a track day.

Either way, great job

[WH95TE]

everything looks great. good job

[Hafkai]

I went to the track yesterday and the engine seems to like the boost , no bigger problems at all, the oil temp was always below 120°C (~250°F) and exhaust gas temp peaked at 930°C (1700°F) @ 6200rpm. The water got a little bit hotter than usual but not too much.
The stock clutch is still in an holds the boost without problems... i'm a little bit astonished about this.

I got a video of the fastest lap.. cam position sucks but i love the engine sound Link
I was able to drop the lap times from 2:30 to 2:21 and this with bad tires...

[presure2]

I went to the track yesterday and the engine seems to like the boost , no bigger problems at all, the oil temp was always below 120°C (~250°F) and exhaust gas temp peaked at 930°C (1700°F) @ 6200rpm. The water got a little bit hotter than usual but not too much.
The stock clutch is still in an holds the boost without problems... i'm a little bit astonished about this.

I got a video of the fastest lap.. cam position sucks but i love the engine sound Link
I was able to drop the lap times from 2:30 to 2:21 and this with bad tires...

1700*F is VERY hot.
be carefull with temps that high, your dangerously close to melting somthing.

[Hafkai]

Most of the time the egt is between 1300-1600°F but it can rise to 1650-1700 on the long straight..
It usualy peaks at 1630°F ... 1690°F was the highest i've seen so far.

[Hafkai]

After about 7k miles the engine still runs great, i did a compression test some weeks ago with ~190psi on all cylinders. The 7A really can take some abuse.. over 200 miles or 15 turns at the circuit without any problems, even at over 90°F ambient temperature.
The engine gets 10psi boost at all day driving and 7-9psi at the track, depending on the weather thanks to boost creep at low temps....
Oil consumption is a little bit high with almost 1L/1000km... but it could be worse
The fuel consumption is not bad with ~27 mpg overall and 20 mpg at the circuit.

I got a short video from the Autobahn, testing 100-200 km/h acceleration at 10psi Youtube

[SwissFerdi]

Awesome man, awesome...this thread is inspiration for me.

What have you done to the internals? Very sorry, I don't remember from the first time reading.

[Hafkai]

What have you done to the internals? Very sorry, I don't remember from the first time reading.

The engine is completely stock, thats why i stop at 10psi.

[SwissFerdi]

Interesting. OOBE said that 8 PSI was the max on stock internals. No issues whatsoever though?

[Hafkai]

No issues at all, it depends on the injection and especially the ignition tuning how much a 7A will handle without braking something. I tuned my 7A to run with an afr of 11,5:1 at full boost and retarded the timing a lot. It's absolutely important to watch engine knock while tuning.
8 psi is pretty safe on a good tuned 7A, 10 psi is the max i would give a stock engine over a longer period of time, maybe 12-13 psi with an water injection.
If you want to go higher you have to lower the compression and get some stronger internals...

[OOBE]

Interesting. OOBE said that 8 PSI was the max on stock internals. No issues whatsoever though?

WTF? I NEVER said that 8 PSI was the max on stock internals. I've had mine to 15 PSI.

The "mechanical engineer" guy was the one that said that. I was the one that broke that myth here years ago about the 7A-FE not being able to handle more than 7 PSI.

[SwissFerdi]

No issues at all, it depends on the injection and especially the ignition tuning how much a 7A will handle without braking something. I tuned my 7A to run with an afr of 11,5:1 at full boost and retarded the timing a lot. It's absolutely important to watch engine knock while tuning.
8 psi is pretty safe on a good tuned 7A, 10 psi is the max i would give a stock engine over a longer period of time, maybe 12-13 psi with an water injection.
If you want to go higher you have to lower the compression and get some stronger internals...

I do know stronger internals are eventually necessary, I just thought that point was past 8 PSI.

WTF? I NEVER said that 8 PSI was the max on stock internals. I've had mine to 15 PSI.

The "mechanical engineer" guy was the one that said that. I was the one that broke that myth here years ago about the 7A-FE not being able to handle more than 7 PSI.

OOBE, you lied to me! Okay, good then. What I'm really looking for is not necessarily a max, but a good point for a DD. What do you run daily?

So both of you guys, push the hell out of your engines so Ferdi has plenty of study material!

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Nov 9, 2009 - 5:11 PM

[Hanyo]

After about 7k miles the engine still runs great, i did a compression test some weeks ago with ~190psi on all cylinders. The 7A really can take some abuse.. over 200 miles or 15 turns at the circuit without any problems, even at over 90°F ambient temperature.
The engine gets 10psi boost at all day driving and 7-9psi at the track, depending on the weather thanks to boost creep at low temps....
Oil consumption is a little bit high with almost 1L/1000km... but it could be worse
The fuel consumption is not bad with ~27 mpg overall and 20 mpg at the circuit.

I got a short video from the Autobahn, testing 100-200 km/h acceleration at 10psi Youtube

awesome look at that odometer move!

[OOBE]

Ferdi,

With good tuning, 10 PSI on a good size turbo is nothing for this engine. You can run it daily. Even with the piston I hurt in the dyno, I was still boosting 15 PSI daily until the car overheated because of a failing radiator fan last week. The broken piston never got more hurt than what it was when I overboosted 18 PSI at the dyno, which is when it broke. The dyno read 222 WHP when the piston broke and I wasn't even on WOT. Who knows if the engine saw over 250 horses. The dyno read that, but the engine might've made way more. That's asking a lot. These are replacement pistons, so they might be weaker than Toyota pistons.

Remember that different turbos give you different power per pound of boost, and the weather conditions affect power A LOT, which is a very important fact that most people forget or fail to realize. In my case, just one PSI in the lower boost range on my turbo counts for ten wheel horsepower according to the dyno, and that's on 85 degree weather at night with a lot of humidity. I might get more on a cool day, which never happens in this island. I also have a bigger turbo, custom intake manifold and bigger throttle body...and also a more efficient intercooler with a horrible two PSI pressure drop. These items were not installed last time I dynoed, so I cannot compare the numbers. Everything changed. Who knows how much these items helped the engine or took away. I couldn't baseline unfortunately.

At 15 PSI, I'm probably getting a bit more than ten wheel horsepower per pound of boost, since the turbo is in its sweet spot on higher boost. Taking this into consideration and given the acceleration rate and how the car feels, if I follow that 10 WHP/PSI ratio, who knows if I'm probably at 250 WHP as of now...ignoring that the head is warped and that the piston is hurt. It's very possible, since the AFR stayed religiously the same from 7 PSI to 18 PSI and the power was being made consistently.

If it wouldn't have overboosted, it wouldn't have broke a piston and I ASSUME I would be around that power level, give or take. A smaller turbo will give you less obviously. So after my experience, I can say that with a good tune, you can boost a bitty more than 200 WHP daily with no problems.

This post has been edited by OOBE: Nov 9, 2009 - 6:15 PM

[SwissFerdi]

With good tuning, 10 PSI on a good size turbo is nothing for this engine. You can run it daily. Even with the piston I hurt in the dyno, I was still boosting 15 PSI daily until the car overheated because of a failing radiator fan last week. The broken piston never got more hurt than what it was when I overboosted 18 PSI at the dyno, which is when it broke...about 230 WHP...which yields about 250 or more to the engine sicne this is an auto tranny. That's asking a lot. These are replacement pistons, so they might be weaker than Toyota pistons.

Remember that different turbos give you different power per pound of boost, and the weather condiions affect power A LOT...something that most people forget or fail to realize. In my case, just one PSI on my turbo counts for ten wheel horsepower, and that's on 85 degree weather at night with a lot of humidity. I might get more on a cool day. A smaller turbo will give you less power per pound of boost. So after my experience, I can say that with a good tune, you can boost a bitty more than 200 WHP daily with no problems.

That's great to hear. 200 WHP would be PLENTY for me, especially coming from...80ish WHP? Realistically, I'd like to say I'll be able to work on the engine once I start this turbo install...but more than likely, I'll still need to learn. Simplistically, I'd like to bolt the stuff on and get it tuned to a reliable standpoint for DD where I won't have any problems. I do want my money's worth in power right away, obviously.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Nov 9, 2009 - 6:01 PM

[OOBE]

Well, the most important thing is to find a good tuner, and either use an e-Manage, or an AEM FIC, or better yet, a stand-alone EMS, because you NEED to be able to control timing if you want the engine to last. I've broken a piston three times in six years. The first two times were because of detonation, not boost level or leaning out. This engine advances timing a boatload when accelerating. You will not believe it. I wish I would've recorded when my tuner took timing readings with a very expensive digital timing light. It was unreal and we were surprised that the engine lasted through all that abuse with such advanced timing throughout these years. By the way, I just sold my e-Manage last week. It worked awesome, but I need more control of the engine because I'm aiming for good numbers now since I'm going with forged internals.

[SwissFerdi]

I'd love to find somebody local that knew their way around a 7A-FE, or at least a turbo'd version of a Japanese 4-banger...my mechanic might have a hookup though, or know himself actually. I imagine those systems are pretty expensive? Well worth it though, obviously.

So basically, if the timing's off, the spark won't go off relative to the correct piston position and it'll just run like crap?

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Nov 9, 2009 - 8:09 PM

[OOBE]

The spark will go off regardless, and there is no such thing as correct piston position. It depends on the engine and what you want to do with it. The point is that if the timing is too advanced, you'll get detonation. Detonation kills engines inside. There are different kinds of detonation. That's why you need high octane fuel or meth/water injection to run high boost. No need for someone to know about 7A-FE engines. My tuner is a 3S-GTE expert, but he has never touched a 7A-FE before mine. It's all about knowing the principles of tuning.

[SwissFerdi]

Okay. I was just thinking in relation of the piston in the chamber moving toward the spark or away from it...if that makes sense.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Nov 9, 2009 - 9:05 PM

[CelicaST_CALI]

Detonation would be the the spark igniting the mix b4 the piston is a TDC(top dead center)...thus teh crank forcing the piston up and the mix forcing it down(bad mix )

[Hafkai]

Detonation would be the the spark igniting the mix b4 the piston is a TDC(top dead center)...thus teh crank forcing the piston up and the mix forcing it down(bad mix )

The mixture is always ignited before TDC , detonation occurs when the mixture is very hot and pressure rises extremely fast in the cylinder due to a to much advanced ignition timing, this ignites small parts of the mixture.
Pre-Ignition would be the really bad thing thats forcing the piston down when it want's to go up...

[CelicaST_CALI]

well i ment wayyy before haha...Detonation=heat...pre-ignition=timing

This post has been edited by CelicaST_CALI: Nov 10, 2009 - 11:40 PM

[SwissFerdi]

Hafkai, another question...you're running the stock transmission right? I'd like to do a manual swap before I turbo, and I'm wondering if the ST's C52 (?) will hold the power, or if I should just get the GT's S54.

[CelicaST_CALI]

Ferdi,doc told me he had a 4agze with a c52 and 225 running through it fine..

[GMan]

> Nov 9, 2009 - 8:02 PM
> SwissFerdi
> '97 ST Hatchback
> From Fort Myers, FL
> I'd love to find somebody local that knew their way around a 7A-FE, or at least a turbo'd version of a Japanese 4-banger...

We'd All love to find a professional to do it.

> So basically, if the timing's off, the spark won't go off relative to the correct piston position and it'll just run like crap?

Learn to tune Yourself ?
www.efi101.com

How far away is Port Charlotte ?

EFI-101
Fundamentals of High Performance Engine Tuning
Using Aftermarket Electronic Fuel Injection
Port Charlotte, FL (Relentless RPM)
http://www.efi101.com/schedule.php?cat=EFI&country=USA

Regards;

[FunkySR]

OOBE, i've only taken 1 degree per psi of boost. I'm running at 9 psi.

[SwissFerdi]

Learn to tune Yourself ?
www.efi101.com

How far away is Port Charlotte ?

EFI-101
Fundamentals of High Performance Engine Tuning
Using Aftermarket Electronic Fuel Injection
Port Charlotte, FL (Relentless RPM)
http://www.efi101.com/schedule.php?cat=EFI&country=USA

Regards;

Appreciate it, but $500 for two days of class? Holy crap!

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Nov 11, 2009 - 4:06 PM

[Culpable04]

for someone with an EMS on their vehicule and a good basic acknowledge of tuning, those courses make a lot of sense and are not pricey at all.

just to tune your frteshly installed EMS will cost you around 700 depending on the tuner / shop you go to.

[SwissFerdi]

for someone with an EMS on their vehicule and a good basic acknowledge of tuning, those courses make a lot of sense and are not pricey at all.

just to tune your frteshly installed EMS will cost you around 700 depending on the tuner / shop you go to.

...holy ****.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Nov 12, 2009 - 12:17 PM

[Culpable04]

Look !

[SwissFerdi]

That is crazy...I had no idea. This is why I'm researching a few years ahead of time...thanks man!

Now, would this also be necessary on a 3S-GTE swap?

[OOBE]

OOBE, i've only taken 1 degree per psi of boost. I'm running at 9 psi.

Well, my mechanic/tuner refuses to have an engine blow because of detonation. He's too proud and people here talk smack with a quickness if you screw up. He doesn't trust a piggyback, so he went really rich and safe on my tune since I'm on stock internals. The timing was retarded to like last year, LOL, and I still made good power. He said that with forged internals and the Microtech LT10s, which is what he runs in his car, he will feel safe and be able to run a leaner mixture and also not retard timing so much. Right now he has the fastest MR2 in the island...with a stock head to boot. He knows his stuff.

That is crazy...I had no idea. This is why I'm researching a few years ahead of time...thanks man!

Now, would this also be necessary on a 3S-GTE swap?

On ANY engine. And yeah, tuning is expensive. Here in the island the cheapest I've seen is $300, which is what my tuner charges. He charges less to me because I helped him with something when we met, so now he gives me good prices.

[SwissFerdi]

Alright. Well, I guess it is money well spent. I know you did two turbo setups, and a tune for each I'm guessing, so do you think you would have spent less than a 3S-GTE swap if you had done only a single setup and single tune? Without any mods not absolutely necessary to turbo'ing, of course.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Nov 14, 2009 - 2:33 PM

[Hafkai]

Hafkai, another question...you're running the stock transmission right? I'd like to do a manual swap before I turbo, and I'm wondering if the ST's C52 (?) will hold the power, or if I should just get the GT's S54.

Yes i have a stock C52, the tranny seems to have no problem with turbo power. I only got some problems with my synchronizers but thats due to the harsh shifting on the track.

Btw... i got a little winter project..

I just test-fitted everything to check the clearance, seems to fit with the 16 inch wheels.

[Culpable04]

what are the specs ( offset specially ) of your wheels ?

I have the same brake set-up but I needed 15 mm spacers to clear my wheels.
what disc did you use on your set-up ?

I used Cadillac catera

[Hafkai]

The wheels are 16x7 ET35, the brake discs are stock Toyota parts for the ST205.

[Hafkai]

Another Autobahn video , this time at about 12psi, the boost drops a little bit over 5500rpm and i think the T25 can't give much more than this at top end.... but i'm pretty happy with the result.

100-200 km/h

[Hafkai]

Got some new injectors.. SARD 650cc/min



The reason for those big injectors is E85, i'm still tuning the e-manage but so far the engine runs really great with this stuff.

[presure2]

Got some new injectors.. SARD 650cc/min



The reason for those big injectors is E85, i'm still tuning the e-manage but so far the engine runs really great with this stuff.

NIIIICCEE!! bet those wernt cheap at all!
some of the guys on mr2oc have been having great results with E85, hope to see you have some too!

[OOBE]

Keep us updated, man. I'm no longer in the 7A-FTE game but I will never lose my love for the engine. I still have mine sitting in my garage. I don't want to sell it. I want to install it in another car.

[normality78]

Yes i have a stock C52, the tranny seems to have no problem with turbo power. I only got some problems with my synchronizers but thats due to the harsh shifting on the track.

Is there anyway to make the synchronizers stronger?

[Hafkai]

Is there anyway to make the synchronizers stronger?

I don't think there is some way to make synchronizers stronger, the only way to prevent them from getting destroyed is to shift properly ...

After over 1000 miles on E85 the engine still runs great and i completely retuned the E-manage to use the possibilities of this fuel.
2 weeks ago i went to the racetrack for the first time this year and with ~10psi boost instead of 8psi like last year. I really love E85.. no knock and the engine stays a little bit cooler than with regular fuel, perfect for track racing.

I currently boost about 12,5psi with my daily drive setup without problems but i won't go any further before the engine got rebuild.

[SwissFerdi]

What are the plans for the rebuild?

[Hafkai]

What are the plans for the rebuild?

Some h-beam rods that i already got, Wiseco pistons (9:1 compression) and the basic stuff to rebuild an engine .. and maybe a GT28R turbo if i got some money left .

[mariosdarkworld]

How is the pull with the 650cc injectors? Does that turbo only hit like 15 psi max? Do you have a write up on some of this besides what you have as a part list in the begging? Have you tried pump gas with those new injectors? Sorry for all the questions I'm still learning lol

[Hafkai]

How is the pull with the 650cc injectors? Does that turbo only hit like 15 psi max? Do you have a write up on some of this besides what you have as a part list in the begging? Have you tried pump gas with those new injectors? Sorry for all the questions I'm still learning lol

The injectors don't make any noticeable difference, you just got more room left for power and no i don't have another write up.

I did some performance test runs with RaceChrono together with a 5hz GPS receiver, maybe not 100% accurate but it shows roughly what's possible. Max boost was 11,5psi.

[Hafkai]

Today i went to a dyno and i'm really happy with the results

[RoyO]

Very good results!!

[celica74]

No issues at all, it depends on the injection and especially the ignition tuning how much a 7A will handle without braking something. I tuned my 7A to run with an afr of 11,5:1 at full boost and retarded the timing a lot. It's absolutely important to watch engine knock while tuning.
8 psi is pretty safe on a good tuned 7A, 10 psi is the max i would give a stock engine over a longer period of time, maybe 12-13 psi with an water injection.
If you want to go higher you have to lower the compression and get some stronger internals...

I do know stronger internals are eventually necessary, I just thought that point was past 8 PSI.

WTF? I NEVER said that 8 PSI was the max on stock internals. I've had mine to 15 PSI.

The "mechanical engineer" guy was the one that said that. I was the one that broke that myth here years ago about the 7A-FE not being able to handle more than 7 PSI.

OOBE, you lied to me! Okay, good then. What I'm really looking for is not necessarily a max, but a good point for a DD. What do you run daily?

So both of you guys, push the hell out of your engines so Ferdi has plenty of study material!

Pressure and volume of air are a completely different thing. You can run a small turbo and boost 12, 14, 16psi all day long, yea itll spool up insanely fast. But if you run a bigger turbo and boost 6, 8, 10psi (same power as small turbo boost) it wont spool as fast. Yea that guy that told you that was correct to some extent, that extent is how big or small your turbo is.

I have a 94 st with a newly swapped 95 7afe in it with only 124k miles. 4afe turbo kit sitting up in my room (yes 4afe exhaust and 7afe are the same) just waiting on injectors and fuel pressure regulator and im hiding in my garage for a weekend to install it. Anyone know if brown top (93-96 325cc 2jzge) injectors will work fine? And i need a good piggyback or way of tuning. Any cheap ideas?

[Hafkai]

And i need a good piggyback or way of tuning. Any cheap ideas?

Cheap and good doesn't work .. the e-manage blue would be cheap but not the best choice, the e-manage ultimate is more expensive but you can tune the engine pretty safe. The best way would be a standalone but that would be extremely expensive and hard to tune.

I got some nice parts waiting to get in the engine, hopefully i'm able to rebuild the engine before winter

[SwissFerdi]

Ooooh...upgraded pistons, rods, and new gaskets and belts...I like it!

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Jun 25, 2010 - 9:54 AM

[celica74]

And i need a good piggyback or way of tuning. Any cheap ideas?

Cheap and good doesn't work .. the e-manage blue would be cheap but not the best choice, the e-manage ultimate is more expensive but you can tune the engine pretty safe. The best way would be a standalone but that would be extremely expensive and hard to tune.

I got some nice parts waiting to get in the engine, hopefully i'm able to rebuild the engine before winter

Anyone got any good ideas on injectors? Was looking into brown tops from a 7mge, anything seem to work better?

[normality78]

Hafkai bro,
I've sold my previous 7afte (stock engine, wrx td04-13t, emanage blue, Ron97) to my friend. On my hand, im boosting 1.1bar for 2 years and now with him another 2 years. So far no issue except head gasket burnt once.

now im going to go for it again except with IHI Vf35 turbo and standalone haltech sprint 500. Will push to 1.3bar and see how it go. since you're going to rebuilt, why not push it to max?

[Hafkai]

Sadly it's to late to push the stock engine to max .. last week a rod bearing failed, now i got a broken rod and a big hole in the block..... looks like a oil problem. I already got a new block and most of the stuff i need to completely rebuild it, i just need new bearings.

But the engine can handle a good amount of power without problems. I was trackracing the last 2 years with the turbo, this year with about 230HP and over 300Nm, i just should have changed the bearings

[malpaso]

I had my old 7AFTE tuned to the limits on OEM internals as well so this project is for me real nostalgia... I hope your car will be running again soon and luckily we meet in Poland on Pan European Celica Meeting next year.

[Hafkai]

After taking the old engine apart i found out that the bearing wasn't the cause of the thrown rod, it looks like the spark plug overheatet extremely, the electrode began to glow and i got the worst of it all... pre-ignition. I'm not shure what caused the plug to overheat, i don't think it was a fuel problem but i will let the injectors get checked.

Here is a pic of the spark plug and some of the rest of the engine:









The new block is getting machined this week and a new cylinderhead is allmost done, i just have to polish the combustion chambers and finish the ports.

[Johnnyny]

wow that plug looks horrible but im glad ur continuing the build

[Hafkai]

The new block is ready and the head just needs to be put together.





Finished exhaust port

[enderswift]

i cant wait to see the results

[jeffrosie]

Been folowing this with great interest. Hope you find out what caused that plug to melt and looks like that new forged engine will give you even more power with the biger turbo and a little more boost.

[97celica_st]

Where did you find the forged pistons and rings? and is it the stock crankshaft?

[Hafkai]

You got a PN about the pistons

The crankshaft is still the stock one, there are no alternatives anyway but this part would be the last to fail on this engine..

[Hafkai]

The project is still alive but everything takes much longer than expected.. the new engine is ready to get in the car, the stock ecu and the e-manage ultimate got replaced by a EMS 6860. Hopefully the engine will be in the car next week, a new rediator + Spal fan will follow and some modifications to the exhaust and intercooler piping are needed to fit the slightly larger T28 turbo.

Some pics from the last months:

[malpaso]

Any update?

[kurt95gt]

boobs!!!

[RabidTRD]

boobs!!!

Omg how did you see that? Lmao! ADHD much?

[Hafkai]

Any update?

Nothing too exciting.. the engine is in the car with the T28 turbo, i got everything done to start the engine but had lots of trouble with the ignition.
The engine fired right up but died immediately, everytime ... i played with the fuel map, turned the distributor in every position but the engine wouldn`t run.
Here's a short video: Vimeo

I decided to completely remove the old ignition system and build me a coil on plug system. I will use a Avensis 7A-FE distributor as crank angle(24 instead of 4 teeth) and sync pickup. The coils are from Bosch (part#: 0 221 504 024), since they're dumb coils withouh build in igniters i have to use an external (part# 0 227 100 211)
Those coils fit quite well, the only problem could be the hood since they're connectors face in that direction ......



I hope i'll have some time soon to install this stuff.

boobs!!!

.. it's really hard to make pics without them in this garage